Hi Warren

I'm almost loathe to say that on the basis of your uniformed experience leads to effective leadership argument that Keelty comes out well.

Arguably his joining, in 1974, what eventually became the AFP provides him with the necessary contacts and experience to be efficient. When one blends such experience with foreign liaison experience useful for the head of ASIO etc then that may be the formula that explains the lack of bombing here since the Sydney Hilton (1978).

Though accountability should have occurred http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_O%27Sullivan#Criticisms_and_controversies .

Basically I think that the record (no bombs for 30 years) indicates that the security leadership mix is working despite political exercises.

Then again Australia could just be lucky – so far. We are so far away from bombing action (Bali excepted) and share no land borders that terrorists (of the Mumbai calibre) have not gotten around to doing us yet.

What I do agree on is politicisation of police and other security agencies - which involves creative stretching of legislation as well. The Haneef miscarriage would be glaringly obvious to most in Canberra, most in the AFP and I suggest Keelty long recognised it as a miscarriage. He just can’t admit it yet because it may end his career.

So politicisation is the main problem. Liberal politicians and their hack staffers would have seen an opportunity with Haneef and ordered the AFP to come up with the Right Result. The DPP was also coerced toward the pre-election terrorism scare objective.

As you say all these shenanigans cause expensive conflicts in the security services, demoralise staff, lose public support and alienate moderate Muslims. Australia is geographically lucky but politicians flogging security people could indeed aid terrorism.

Its better to have experienced security bosses around (with a few sins) than clean, inexperienced, newbies.

Regards

Peter Coates
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/2008/11/mumbai-terrorist-attack-zakiruallah-and.html

All I can say is that Hemant Karkare was an absolute legend. He regarded terrorism as a political phenomenon, and was prepared to investigate all forms of terrorism. Just before he died, he had instituted proceedings against Hindutva terrorists, for which he was severely criticised by the pro-Hindutva fundamentalist opposition coalition. Now they are tripping over each other to praise him!

I remember reading a quote by a terrorist;

"We only have to get it right once,
You have to get it right every time !".

This is the crux of the prevention problem.
I would suggest that no matter how many ears to the ground the authorities have they will only detect a small number of terror attempts.

With time the terrorists get better at their own security but all they
have to do is keep quiet about their plans. Because they mainly
inhabit a semi closed society this is easy to do.
Even after the event many of those in that society will either
cover up anything they may realise in retrospect or just ignore it.
The police have already complained of this.

I notice that we have a return visit from the idiot who thinks that cybersquatting is oh-so neat.

I can't remember his name, but he was an idiot then, and clearly is still an idiot.

How in the Blazes did those 2 posts get through?

If left here they would reduce the dignity of OLO to a drunken street brawl.

The major lesson from Mumbai is...in my view:

"If you have different cultures/religions/races among you, which see their identity in terms of those cultures/religions/races, rather than being members of the State, and those things contain justifications for or.. don't have prohibitions on... violent advancement of their cause, it is inevitable that no matter what you do, they will at some stage feel the majority are out to get them, impoverish them, persecute them or victimize them...and over time, will become increasingly violent toward the majority and the State"

Communal clashes are happening in Nigeria as we speak...with higher death tolls than Mumbai. It is in the city of Jos, where the Muslim and Christian communities meet.

It is so serious that the 'Shoot on sight' for curfew breakers/trouble formenters has been issued.

It's the same lesson as Mumbai, where now (if the Indian police are to be believed) the surviving Terrorist has confessed that they are from Lashka e Toiba.. an Islamist group in Pakistan.

Wayne Smith is his name Pericles. Cleaned the posts up again. If you see him again, can you let me know? He's likely to keep coming back.

It could so easily happen here.
There are never enough police and intell folk (thats how China got her 1,000 spies out here with their little box brownies).
We're running behind with Defence.
We look to computers for highschool children and building infra- structure here and there and not at the size of the great armies to the north. Our eyes are not on them.
Some day soon we are going to have to draw from the populace for a defence... just to make it through the years ahead.
I hope someone is thinking about it.
Islam is only a stones throw north of Darwin.
...and some say theyve been here before.

http://www.cforu.net/files/dinkum/dink43s.php

The attack on Mumbai is the continuation of terror by ALL MEANS. The question is whether the civilized people of the world in this struggle for existence will be expecting the U.S.A., under the new incoming administration, which is the only nation that can defeat these warriors of ‘God’ decisively, and its allies, to also fight terror by all means and whether President Obama will have the timely mettle, resolution, and sagacity to do so.

http://kotzabasis.com

“Potential informants have been put off by unnecessarily draconian anti-terror legislation”, is a strange statement badly needing explanation.

“And yet, we still don’t know why Scott Parkin, an American protestor visiting Melbourne for a G20 meeting in 2005, was extradited from Australia as a threat to national security.”

I’d be surprised if anyone felt any need to know why a foreign protestor was removed from Australia. We had our own ratbags demonstrating. We didn’t need a rude foreigner here as well.

We should all be alarmed by incidents such as the Chaser ‘affair’. The comedians went out of their way to get caught and made the police look complete idiots.

I think that the general theme of this article is supposed to be the ineptitude of people supposedly responsible for Australia’s security. But it is a disjointed piece, jumping all over the place with no continuity and really saying nothing we don’t already know or feel.
We should be able to expect something better from someone who has been in the ‘job’.

If this is the best criticsm and most helful criticism of our security and intelligence services, we are in big trouble.

The culture, empire building, cronyism and inter-agency rivalry (State-Federal, State-State; and Federal-Federal) is one of the biggest risk factors working against real cooperation and vital sharing of information if the threat of terrorism is to taken seriously.

No point having threat assessments and analysis, sometimes duplicated, if all pieces of information are not being shared.

Some very apt comments in this article. The cooperation between agencies has improved considerably since 9/11 but there is still room for greater improvements. If some of the parties would concentrate less on who is top dog, who is smarter, cleverer, more important - there are some real d*weeds in the industry who thrive on the image, thrill and self-imagined mystique.

I believe a more open and transparent national security network would encourage greater trust and faith in the system;leading not only to greater raw data ie. information - but more credible information. It is not only vital that information be shared but that the networks that turn this information into 'intelligence' coordinate and cooperate with each other to make the data more meaningful and hence more effective.

India’s 9/11. Who was Behind the Mumbai Attacks?
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6262
Michel Chossudovsky | The operation has the fingerprints of a paramilitary-intelligence operation.

Jaish-e-Muhammad is Added to the List of Mumbai Suspects
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6260
Kurt Nimmo | Pakistani terrorist group was founded by MI6 asset and 9/11 bagman Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh.

New York Times Misleads on Taliban Role in Opium Trade
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6276
Foreign Policy Journal | The New York Times and other major U.S. media sources commonly report on the production of opium in Afghanistan as though it were under the control of the Taliban.

The facts on the ground, however, tell a different story. Who dominates the Afghan opium trade?



Doctors shocked at hostages’ torture
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6265
Rediff India | Doctors working in a hospital where all the bodies, including that of the terrorists, were taken said they had not seen anything like this in their lives.



Mumbai terrorists used Chechen tactics
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6249
Russia Today | The terrorists in Mumbai used the same tactics that Chechen militants employed in the Northern Caucasus, says Russian counter terrorism

Mumbai attacks: City fears five terrorists are ‘missing’
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6263
Times Online | At least five terrorist gunmen have evaded capture in Mumbai and could make a secondary strike on India’s financial capital, it was feared this morning.

Mumbai False Flag Attack: Update
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6253
Leonard Feldman | Many have speculated over the last two days that the captured terrorists would be assassinated as is the case with all ‘terrorists’ in false flag operations.

Idiots. "Islam just a stone's throw from Darwin". Yawn - and spew. It's so tiring that we are still bombarded with inane references to "war", "clash of civilizations" and such rubbish. It is a simple, uncontroversial truism to remind ourselves that these actions are first and foremost of the "criminal conspiracy" nature - period. Anything else is distraction of the classic techniques of "false flag" and proxy actors.

Well done again OUG! The MI6 filth and "false flag" are well worth a mention here.

Notice how the UK press reported the UK connections from the start, but have now back-pedalled. An exception is Mail Online's Sunday reference to Lashkar-e-Taiba: "A banned Islamic terrorist group funded with cash raised in British mosques is believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks." Earlier UK press quotes repeatedly exposed that at least seven of the attacking criminals were UK nationals - even speaking Punjabi with characteristic northern-English accents!

Same old imperialist dullards playing their games, telling themselves their geniuses as if they really achieved something sophisticated with partition and other dark schemes and secrecy.

Of a "criminal conspiracy" nature?
What would be the goal for a criminal conspiracy?

Long before Law (Moses and the tablets) was the conflict between God and satan...

1. God and the children of Israel through Isaac and the subsequent Christian believers are on one side...the side of Love and light and

2. satan and Ishmael, Mohammed and Islam are on the other...the side of darkness and persecution.

Its always been a spiritual/religious war.

One has to be careful to get all of the facts (Bible facts) and not to be a part of the apathy of the young people of this age and to allow Islam open doors to spread, for surely, they will enact Sharia Law if they get hold in this great land of ours.
If they ever got Sharia Law it would be re-education camps and torture of dissidents.

Im for a big army against Indonesia.
In the light of Chinas desires for Australia (as New South China or New China as they refer to us) and their huge military build-up...an even bigger army.