SJF,

In part I would agree with you, after reading Mynra Blythes book "Spin Sisters", I think we could really lay the blame right at the door step of the media for some, if not all of the misinformation.

<The feminist movement is NOT, and never has been, about making men look stupid>

The feminist movement may not be to blame, but there are definite individuals, within this movement who are to blame.

Now back to humour, humour is a personal thing, for example I find Kevin bloody wilson revolting, other people find him funny (I dont know why?) So humour comes down to personal taste, or lack there of.

What one group may find funny, another will find it to be offensive.

So what do we do?

Do we ban all forms of humour? Just in case it offends someone?

Why are blonde jokes one liners?

That is so brunettes can understand them.

SJF makes extremely good points. The emails have been published without attribution. I take this to mean that we don't know the gender of the authors.

'an extensive survey of some men I know' is not 'research' and there is no evidence presented about why men send these emails on, despite the conclusions made.

The 'locker room pressure' (above) felt by men is part of patriarchy so it is interesting that this too is blamed on women.

Men are definitely victims of partiarchy. People who have studied feminism are very aware of the cultural pressures placed on men. Patriarchy is part of culture in which we grow up. We are all touched by it. It is just that women are more inclined to critique it whereas men feel even more threatened in questioning it because there is not as much acceptability of developing alternative roles and behaviours for them.

Female feminists have other feminists to turn to for support yet who do men have if they want to challenge the treatment they receive from other men?

Unfortunately most men never get so far into the topic as to begin to understand how the pressures they are raised with can and should be questioned. We end up with the suicides mentioned earlier. These public point-scoring debates between 'us' and 'them' just reiterate the whole cycle when hopefully what we all want is to better understand ourselves and each other.

JamesH (and general commentary)

I haven't read 'Spin Sisters' but I don't think women's magazines should be viewed as a tool of feminism (if that's what the author is doing). Women's mags have evolved out of a strictly conservative women's tradition, which still dominates the industry.

Also, re your point that humour is a personal thing, most would agree with you. However, humour also has other functions - as a socio-political tool to keep certain groups on the outside of the mainstream and to give voice to pervading but often unexpressed social anxieties.

Recently, the feminist discussion group I belong to had a session on this topic – i.e. the advent of ‘stupid man’ humour – which we all agreed seemed to have burst onto the scene in about the mid-90s and has increased significantly just in the last few years.

A couple of ideas we threw around were:

• It is not a feminist style of humour, but it definitely seems to involve some kind of reactive response to feminism. In particular, it seems to have coincided with the waning of castration-anxiety humour which was itself a major reaction against the perceived gains of feminism in the 70s and 80s. Also, the ‘dimwitted bloke’ appears to be a distant cousin of the more politically correct SNAG, but he’s a much easier target to lampoon.

• Globalisation has decimated the Western manufacturing sector – particularly in the US – by sending it offshore to chase lower and lower labour costs. This process has particularly intensified the decline of the working-class man (aka ‘blokes’). Like the ‘stupid Irishman’ joke – which was created to justify draconian British colonial policy in Ireland –‘stupid bloke’ humour seems to be a socio-political justification for globalisation. After all, if blokes are so 'stupid', then they must the reason for their own 'failure'.

Make of this what you will.

Sorry to get so hoity-toity intellectual, folks … but humour is a very serious business!

My favourite gender joke has always been:

Q. Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
A. Because they're ugly and the smell.

To me, a perfect little joke in its own way — easy pay-off, very silly, very giggly. (To me, I emphasis again. As James says, humour is very personal.)

I agree with everyone who's pointed out that there's nothing remotely feminist about these jokes. (That is, the ones in the original article.) They remind me of nothing so much as the "Mere Male" columns in No Idea-type magazines, hardly feminist propoganda.

I think the best defence against humour that relies on bland cliches about sex, race or whatever (I'm talking about the unfunny stuff — not the good jokes about sex, race or whatever) is to satirise it in turn. The Office, for example, did this beautifully.

Oh, and anyone remember Viz magazine? They used to do a great line in faux "top tips" such as you'd see in women's magazines:

"A hedgehog trained to scuttle up and down the table makes an unusual mobile pineapple and cheese cube nibble dispenser."

"Olympic athletes. Disguise the fact you've taken steroids by running slower."

"A small coniferous tree in the corner of your living room is an excellent place to store Christmas decorations!"

Of course, Viz took the p!ss out of blokes too. Sid the Sexist was actually a virgin who lived with his mother.

Oh, good times.

Omg, same con job all the time, butter wouldn’t melt in a feminist’s mouth.

Feminism is a political movement for women only & bug-er everyone else & guys if you don’t like it tough, ve haft vays of making you comply, nobody is allowed to reject feminism ve are the only way & de only ones who are right.

We can demean & degrade you in any way we want in jokes or otherwise but don’t you dare try it with us you sexist pig.

Humanist cares about all people & society, the only reason people call themselves feminist is so they can exclude caring about anybody but themselves.

All the males we know have never heard a feminist tell an anti-feminist joke.

DVD: "All the males we know have never heard a feminist tell an anti-feminist joke."

Q: How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One, and it's not funny.

Veronika the feminist
xxx