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The end of Israel as a Jewish state? : Comments
By Antony Loewenstein, published 27/11/2008The vast majority of Israeli citizens oppose the settler movement.
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Posted by j5o6hn, Thursday, 27 November 2008 2:10:41 PM
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This article, while speaking in the name of "justice", in fact seeks to punish helpless victims.
Most Israelis, which Mr. Loewenstein seeks to punish, do not want the settlements, but can they do anything about it? No: if they could - they already would! While the settlers are relatively few in numbers, they are determined and formidable zealots. They have presence everywhere in Israel, including within the army ranks. They threaten army officers that try to remove them and already injured some. An Israeli police or army officer evacuating a major settlement can reasonably expect his child to be kidnapped on his/her way to kindergarten. Attempting to force the settlers to re-settle in Israel would bring about a civil war, of the type and magnitude that we saw in Bosnia and Ruanda. Surprise surprise, many Israelis (including Ze'ev Sternhell and Gideon Levy, which were quoted in this article) do not even care about having a "Jewish state" (or at least, it is not that high on their priority-list), they just want to live peacefully, but what is the alternative? would that be a nicely civilized multi-cultured country like Australia? No - for all realistic intents and purposes, the "enlightened" alternative is an oppressive Islamic regime, a Taliban apartheid state where both women and those Jews that will somehow still be allowed to live will be second-class citizens. I am sure the author would not be willing to live in such a country - so why should the Israelis agree? The future seems bleak: the tendency is for many among the sensible and desperate Israelis that are able to do so, to leave the country, thus leaving it more and more in the hands of the settlers. Pressuring innocent Israelis is not going to improve Israel's demographics and make it "less Jewish". But why should someone who places Israel's terrible and real dangers withiin quotes (Hamas "terrorism" and Iranian "provocation") even care? Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 27 November 2008 5:58:08 PM
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Could agree with you, Bennie.
But wouldn't it be better to take advice from another Jew, Henry Kissinger who not only wants Israel to get rid of its illegal Nukes, - but he also believes the whole world should get rid of its Nukes. Let's hope with the now G20 global group now knocking out the old elitist G8 group something more sensible might happen. Not only to follow the Kissinger Nil-Nuko's Plan, but also the nasty skity Western ideas causing much more hate from the ordinary Islamists. Examples like us Westerners using ill-gotten gains to foolishly flash-up places like Dubai, with most lower class Arabs still only used as servants. Which any high-school kid could tell them it's not the way for our world to go. Cheers, BB, WA. Posted by bushbred, Thursday, 27 November 2008 11:07:37 PM
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The more important issue is not 'The vast majority' of anything.....
it is "Which political/religious segment of the population is GROWING" http://www.economist.com/world/mideast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12436112 [The militant core group once numbered dozens, says the Israeli general commanding the West Bank, Gadi Shamni. Now there are hundreds. And they are backed, he says, by rabbis and political leaders from the more mainstream settler movement. The general sounds powerless, as he gives warning that “the extremist margins are growing wider.” The settlers have been running rings round the army for decades. That is how many of the settlements and outposts got built in the first place, defying the government’s purported restrictions.] http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/842070.html "Welcome to Settler Nation." http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/08/world/fg-settlers8 "Settler Block Growing." http://jta.org/news/article/2007/04/02/101014/settlermovementisrael "Settler movement bounces back" COMMENT Without reading Genesis/Exodus/Joshua/Judges.....you cannot even beGIN to appreciate the intensity of ideas driving the Settlers. Just as Hamas followers minds are stuck in the 7th century... so to are the Settlers minds linked to the promises of G-d in those books. "From the red sea to the Euphrates" is... "ISRAEL" if you believe those promises. Don't bother trying to rip me apart.. simply "understannnnnnnd"..... that this is where the Settler movement comes from. Like it or lump it, hate it or love it... doesn't matter.. "understanding" it...does. Posted by Polycarp, Friday, 28 November 2008 7:59:37 AM
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poly help me to understand the 'settler' mind set
so if i got a mother[or grand mother;ie less than one quaTer pure dna]i can come to israel and claim any palistein land FOR FREE? because god gave it to my ancestors well bro my ancestors are 100_percent_dutch[i want my families dutch estates back[what does abandonment for near 2000 years mean?my dutch estates are only abandoned for 54 years[i think i need to arm up[i got a case too] i just do a sit-in right?weld door's shut[produce a fake reciept of sale? ok now i just need a few quater/cast dutchies out there to form a mob how about it[must be some quater cast dutchies out there]lets go claim back our dykes god didnt give it[our ancestors BUILT it wonder if belgum will sign an BELLfor style agreement letter with me i will of course disregard EU motions for me to disist we can abuse the dutch solgers[as traitors]when they try to break though my welded_shut boobytraped door if enough of us do it we can control dutch politics if we buy up the media they wont mention it to the natives[and we can twist the facts to suit ourselves now how can we link this[to being by not gods will]but mans will we built it/we own it hey if all else fails we will just open the dykes and return the dirt back to the sea those dutchies stole my land/were taking it back[forgive me beautrix][nothing personal you know]amstarDAMM becomes a gulag rotterdam[west bank]will be mined so the dutchies dont get ideas[ha ha[they cant dig tunnels in swamps] and we will use cluster bombs we have 400 atomic bombs[and will use them] just need some usa planes and bunker busting man-uitions common clog hoppers unite[we can claim our homeland back[god knows we arnt accepted in these foreign shores]this govt actually decared a drug war on me] when its a genetical condition[im dutch]and gen1;29,god gave me every herb bearing seed[for me it will be meet] till we meet again on our homeland/built from the very dust of our ancestors Posted by one under god, Friday, 28 November 2008 8:48:26 AM
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Must agree with polycarp on this one. Unless you take the time to understand a particular mindset, you might as well not try to deal with. It'll be like trying to stop the tide coming in.
Posted by Phil Matimein, Friday, 28 November 2008 9:34:14 AM
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Israel was brought into being by the Balfour Declaration after the UK gave away Palestine during the 1st World war for money.
There will never be peace until it is one state, it turned into a US supported South Africa,apartheid in the occupied territory,s with the settlers stealing more and more land,no wonder the Palestinians are fighting aganist this.