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The Forum > Article Comments > Afghanistan: is there a plan? > Comments

Afghanistan: is there a plan? : Comments

By Bruce Haigh, published 2/10/2008

The new President of Pakistan will do little to address concerns at the flow of insurgents and weapons from Pakistan to Afghanistan.

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Very well said Bruce. The sooner the US alliance realises that they have no place in Afghanistan, the better. The Russians discovered what the Poms had found out a century before, but the dumb Yanks are still trying to re-invent the wheel. Our government is even dumber, falling for the line of BS dished out to them by George Bush and his minders. Unfortunately, McCain and Obama don't seem to have learned the lesson either.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Thursday, 2 October 2008 12:20:05 PM
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Yet another good article Bruce.

The situation in Afghanistan is so much worse than Vietnam because:

- Opium corrupts most Afghani politicians and maintain a drug lord - warlord culture over the whole country. Even many pro-Coalition leaders and fighters are well known drug lords.

- Religion - strong Islamic feelings mean that no natural bonds of friendship have grown with the "infidels". A measure of this is that while a significant number of Australian troops in Vietnam eventually married Catholic Vietnamese brides no such marriage of locals has happened in Afghanistan as far as I know (if anybody can point to any positive stats that would be interesting).

- Pakistan's nuclear weapons have no parallel in the Vietnam War. Unlike Pak based insurgents there was no chance that the Vietnamese Communist insurgents could retaliate with nuclear devices including dirty bombs.

About the Pakistani Prez Asif Ali Zardari the Chicago Tribune, Sept 13, 2008 has a great comment about him:

"Derided as a crook and a liar, a weasel and a wastrel, Zardari, the widower of slain former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, takes office even though most Pakistanis are deeply skeptical about him.

For much of his political life, Zardari was known as Bhutto's feckless, freeloading consort, often accused of extracting kickbacks from anyone wishing to do business with his wife's government—hence, "Mr. 10 Percent.""

It won't improve (for the West anyway) in Afghanistan unless the US can install a vicious Shah of Iran type - not likely - and not good for people.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.co
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 2 October 2008 12:27:34 PM
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Pushing the envelope by addressing 3 comments tonight.
I have to say that Afghanistan has always accepted men of integrity.
Most Afghanis speak of Iskandar as if he was a Great Uncle.
I speak of Alexander the Great.

What is it about Afghanistan that we have to interfere anyway?
Is it because since Iskandar they abided no overlord for very long?
Is it because they produced good Hashish?
Is it because they fought off the might of the Soviet Union?

Or is it because they are all an incredibly proud people who want no more than to go their own way towards solving their own problems in their own time?

It really is such a bloody shame that if outside intervention is a no-choice situation for Afghanis - that our Australian and New Zealand troops do not have the resources to take the task on 100 percent.

Because if they could - they might supplant Alexander's legend, and by dint of similar values shared with such proud people, bring some respite and decency to a much oppressed land.
Posted by A NON FARMER, Thursday, 2 October 2008 7:51:16 PM
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Comments x 2
David has an historical point that cannot be denied. Flat out cannot be denied.

Plantagenet - Is it the drugs or the nukes that worry you?
Both are a fact of life - essentially condoned by the good ol' boys.
With regard to Afghani women marrying Aussies - they well might if the men come up to their standards.
I have no doubt that our people are fine people.
I would submit however they have no chance of cutting the mustard when placed in comparison with the average Afghani bloke.
Why would Afghani women have the slightest interest with the sort of doughballs we turn out these days?

To start with the average Afghani bloke is as wiry as all get out. Then he is inclined to have a great sense of family, then clan, then cares immensely about his heritage and land.. Besides which if he survives past his youth he tends to live to a ripe old age.
They are immensely valuable people.
Might there be some way we might cease interfering with their lives?
Posted by A NON FARMER, Friday, 3 October 2008 10:31:56 PM
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> Is it because since Iskandar they abided no overlord for very long?

Actually Alexander's rule was quite short. After his death, his satrap Selucius Nicator lost what is present day Afghanistan to the Indian emperor Chandragupta Maurya. His grandson Ashoka's edicts (laws) are still to be found in Kandahar. Later kings such as Kanishka ruled huge empires that included present day Afghanistan.

During Buddhist times, the region was at peace, ruled by law. For hundreds of years.

The Pashtun areas of modern day Pakistan were later ruled by the Sikh king Ranjit Singh. He crushed a jihad launched against his rule. He enforced his laws. Those areas ended up inside British India because the British defeated the Sikh kingdom.

So the Pashtuns (and other Afghans) have a history of being ruled for long periods and obeying the law.

It is a useful myth to assert that the region is ungovernable, that no military, no ruler is able to impose their will. Useful for those that prefer a region in chaos, a buffer zone that protects their more secure centers of power. Quite useful for present day Pakistan to have borders that are porous, amorphous, ever expanding.
Posted by john frum, Saturday, 4 October 2008 12:12:20 PM
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Non Farmer

The Aussies sleep in fortresses to protect them from Afghans.

You ask whether it is the drugs or nukes that worry me? You're kidding right? Drugs and nukes worry the US and NATO, Australia and NZ intensely.

I think you are wilfully missing the point about the lack of digger-Afghan female intermarriage. This isn't due to relative quality of menfolk.

It is RELIGION that divides people sharply in that fervently Islamic country. Afghan woman are not allowed out. If a woman escapes and by some miracle is seen walking hand in hand with a Digger an Afghan woman would probably be killed outright on the street or later that night at her home.

This is not forgetting that Afghanistan is so hostile that a digger wouldn't be walking alone on the street in (say) Kandahar anyway.

Staged and filmed handshakes of friendship between Aussies and Afghan men barely veil uncertainty and often antipathy.

It is as if the Australians are part of a (short-term) occupying army. Begs the question doesn't it.

--

John Frum

As usual your knowledge and sound arguments embarrass the more ignorant or flippant commenters on OLO.

I'm pessimistic though that infidels (like us) could never rule Afghanistan for long. Afghanis may accept Muslim rule though - and I suggest Pakistan would be the most logical country to rule the Afghanis - maybe dirctly or maybe through an ISI assisted puppet. Maybe Saudi money would be needed to fund the setup as in the 1980s and 90s.

Unfortunately such a recipe may equal Taliban-like rule with equal opportunities for al Qaeda to setup its terrorist academies again.

So I'm pessimistic. I think the rising numbers of Diggers killed in Afganistan will persuade the Australian public that servicing the American alliance in Afghanistan is no longer worth it - 4 years max.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 4 October 2008 1:26:07 PM
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