David,

Of course, Israel should return to its pre June 67 borders, evict the "settler" carpetbaggers( they could be compensated) and acknowledge the Palestinians as having legitimate rights while allowing that a great wrong could not be undone- an Israeli version of Mabo perhaps. This, sadly is a fantasy given Israel's intransigence, we both know the problem will, with time, disappear, along with the Palestinians. A thought experiment for you, imagine that the Israelis worshipped the sun and the Palestinians the moon, and you read a history of the past 60 years, which side is the oppressed and which the oppressor?

Mac,

You have made it abundantly clear that there is only ONE party at fault in this situation. That kind of thinking, shared by many on both sides of the conflict, is what has prevented any solution to this conflict and will continue to do so.

Israel has entirely valid security concerns. Hamas have promised that they will not rest whilst the state of Israel is still in existence. Iran has intimated more than once that it will “end” Israel if it gets the chance. Hezbollah are just as committed to Israel’s destruction.

It is a FACT that merely returning control of the west bank and gaza strip to Palestine won’t end the conflict. Indeed Israel rightfully believes that such an approach will create the likelihood of MORE violence, as extremists groups will be able to point to the fact that their campaigns of terror are working, and that they should be extended.

This is not idle conjecture. See what happened when Israel pulled unilaterally out of the Gaza Strip. There was a struggle for power among the militant groups, and instead of getting on with the task of establishing a Palestinian state, Gaza has been used as a giant forward operating base from which to better attack Israel.

You say >> “This, sadly is a fantasy given Israel's intransigence, we both know the problem will, with time, disappear, along with the Palestinians”

This is utter nonsense. The average age of a Palestinian is 15. Palestinian numbers are going to increase at a rate eclipsing Israelis by some margin. And the other important point to note about a society with lots of young people with nothing to do, is that they generally have serious problems.

None of this negates the fact that the Palestinians have a legitimate grievance.

Only a resolution which addresses both sides concerns will be effective. Palestinians need to be able to guarantee Israel its security. Israel needs to return behind its 1967 borders.

David Singer

This is a public forum and I am challeging you to reject and condemn Polycarp's attitudes and statements as inciting racial hatred.

The attitudes he shows with the language he uses are parallel to the hateful attitudes expressed by the Nazi's and other anti-semites.

The,now silenced, cowardly polycarp is expressenig hatred and inciting hatred towards the Palestinians. If I knew his identity I'd immediately launch such an action against him in the Australian Courts.

It is time for you to stand up and clearly show you reject such ideas and attitudes. Unless you do the ideas you are espousing could at the very least be seen as tainted, and at the worst as inciting the same racial hatred.

Come on, be a man, here's your chance.

No weasel words or excuses just a simple rejection and condemnation of Polycarp's simple statements, as cited below will suffice.

In case you have any doubt, these ones, the ones that are so reminiscent of the Nazi's and other anti-semites:

"the sooner the sense of 'Palestinian Idenity' is erased from the pages of history the better off we will all be, including them."

"The idea of 'Palestinian connection to the land' is invalid."

If you cannot bring yourself to do this then any claim you have to impartiality in seeking a solution could easily be seen as a pretense and is utterly undermind.

I then will personally dog you for a very long time for your display of utter lack of courage and insincerity.

Keith Kennelly

Keith, I don't see why David should be required to deal with what another poster says. Like everyone else he gets two chances a day to post, and it is great to see that he is using them and dealing with some of what is here.

I don't think it's legitimate to frame him so that if he doesn't disagree with someone else, then he must agree with them. That is not a logical position. And the language you are using suggests that you are imputing the views of that poster to him, which again is not logical. I thought about deleting your post for flaming, but decided to let it stand.

Reckon the worst thing that the UN or rather the US could have done for genuine peace between between Jews and Arabs was to stay silent while Israel became militarily atomic.

Certainly any historian worth his salt must agree with Henry Kissinger's report way back when we were were clapping our hands over the end of Hitler and the Jews being encouraged at last to return to their Biblical homeland.

But now with Israel owning the most modern in long-range rockets and deep penetrative nuclear warheads, very little interest has been shown in an article by Kissinger giving warning of increasing Arabic anger and possible global trouble ahead with a tiny talented nation like Israel allowed so much nuclear strike power.

Thus we had the former friend of America, Saddam of Iraq trying to match Israel's strike capacity way back in the late 1970's with Israel allowed to take out the possible nuclear installation way back in 1981.

And so it goes on with Syria being struck by little Israel just recently, and the much bigger Iran, former proud Persia believing it has the right to match Israel's red-back spider like sting.

Certainly many of us academic historians have lost our love for Israel, and even against America and her ridiculous hold over the UN, possibly even allowing a future WW3 come to pass.

So again must come the warning to America to use sensible historical insight to keep track on her foresight to prevent a possible WW3.

hi Grahame

Thankyou for your judicious stance.

I have challenged David, not for sharing Polycarp's racist and hateful statements but because he has welcomed and thanked Polycarp for his support.

'Polycarp:

Thanks for your endorsement.'

Posted by david singer, Sunday, 28 September 2008 12:19:46 PM

The original post by by Polycarp, was Sunday, 28 September 2008 9:17:11 AM. In my view it was the post of a racist.

David didn't express any disapproval of those views.

My thinking, while maybe not strictly logically, is that if David accepts the praise from Polycarp and doesn't reject Polycarp's racist views then he as accepting support from a racist who's view are similar in many ways to his own ... even though I think David's views are legitimately expressed and free from the taint of racism.

With acceptance of Polycarp's support David's argument is seen to be tainted, in essence by the non-rejection of Polycarp's racist view.

As you are probably well aware, I have been very critical of Israel in the past. I have always been very mindful of the possibility of allegations of anti-semitism and have defended myself from many. To this end I have never accepted any support for any position I have adopted from anyone who is openly anti-semitic ... as I am sure I would have been slurred by association. I honestly cannot recall if I have rejected any such support but equally I am sure that my fair and liberal nature would have ensured I had ... or would.