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The Forum > Article Comments > Paulson pinpoints Palestine's panacea > Comments

Paulson pinpoints Palestine's panacea : Comments

By David Singer, published 26/9/2008

How to resolve the intractable 130-year-old conflict between Arabs and Jews over a piece of land once called Palestine.

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David

Show me where I have suggested kicking half a million illegal settlers out of the West Bank. That is another of your assumptions and typically a closed-minded half-baked slur.

I am on the public record for supporting giving sovernity of the West Bank to a Palestinian State.

Let the Palestinian State and it's people determine rightful title to individual particular plots of land.

Of course the illegal settlers would naturally become Palestinians
... and there is a precedent for such an action in the region ... one you clearly support.

I fully understand, with all your nuances, exactly what you write. Your problem is in your ignorance and tunnel vision you cannot see fully all the meanings contained in what you write.

I owe you no apology. Your statements clearly support different treatment, in similar circumstances, for Palestinians and Jewish Israeli's ... that sir makes you discrimitory on the basis of race. That makes you a racist.

Have no doubt I am an independant thinking man. You need to give respect to those who hold differing views to you.

I have published my views on this topic in this magazine.

Try this
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5358
Posted by keith, Thursday, 9 October 2008 2:11:01 PM
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David Singer

'Please tell me specifically what matters in your posts I have not responded to.'
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 8 October 2008 2:11:47 PM

Well here are five very specific matters in my posts to you which you have evaded a straigth forward, and in some case any, response:

One:
'David Singer do you realise your rants are merely attracting the worst type of racist a.......s aka Iam Joseph'
4 October 2008 9:18:34 PM

Two:
'You conveniently and deliberately ignore the illegal settlements and the illegal eviction of the Palenstians from those areas since '67.
Why don't they count in your grand scheme?'
5 October 2008 3:08:46 PM

Three:
'Why don't you reject Iam Joseph's racism ...'
5 October 2008 3:08:46 PM

Four:
'Care to deny you are unfamiliar with the following offer from the Arab League first proposed in Beirut in 2002 and endorsed in Riydah in 2007.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm
'The Arab Peace Initiative, 2002'
7 October 2008 11:16:30 AM

Five:
'I put it to you it is that you see this course as more beneficial to Israel and excludes input from the native Palestinian residents thereby giving greater possibility of allowing Israel a sneaky and underhand attempt at a legitimisation of Israel's past public illegalities. A creeping progrom.'
8 October 2008 12:49:30 PM

Given your past exhibition of racism and tunnel vision ... I'm really not holding my breath waiting for a reasoned response.

Manik Josiah

'An Israeli withdrawal from this position may be helpful for peace, but how long will that peace remain? Peaceful relations between Syria and Israel may even last for years, but what of the next generation?'

I agree long term peace will be very difficult to maintain ... given Israel's perchant for territorial expansionism ... since '67.
Posted by keith, Thursday, 9 October 2008 2:46:52 PM
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David,

"Firstly there are no 1967 borders"

Let me repeat my point: Most if not all arabs would recognise Israel right to exist pre the 1967 war (ie before the lands that Israel captured in 1967).

Israel justified capturing the land so they can negotiate land for peace in the future. I think the problem is that the 'land for peace' strategy was replaced by the 'land for settlers' which is the US and the EU administrations have been saying all along.

"So a withdrawal to the 1967 armistice lines cannot happen unless brought about by war - which can now only be avoided in my opinion by dividing sovereignty of the West Bank and Gaza between Israel,Egypt and Jordan"

Agree on the first half of your statement and it was actually the late president Sadat philosophy to initiate the 1973 war.
The second half of your statement however ignores on ground realities as follows:

1. The surrounding governments you mentioned are non-democratic and in most cases unpopular and are of touch of their main street opinion. In order for a divided sovereignty to work, you need a long and massive change management plan at the people level. Government decisions only won't survive for long and might add to the divide between the people and their governments.

2. You would agree that the threat to Israel's security won't be by a hostile government but rather by a group of individuals or an organisation like hamas or its likes. This renders governmental peace deals irrelevant and non lasting and also reduces Israel's might at the retaliation level. Even its nuclear arms have no use scenario.

My view is similar to the one that Olmert left the office with which is its up to Israel to push for peace and make a deal before many different small groups start taking bites. By then it would be too late.

I am no professional analyst but I don't think I am wrong.

Peace,
Posted by Fellow_Human, Thursday, 9 October 2008 9:37:44 PM
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Keith:

Your suggestion that "of course" the 500000 Jews living in the West Bank will be offered Palestinian citizenship would be a very interesting development if it were true - but it has never been proposed to my knowledge in the current Roadmap negotiations.

Indeed Israel is reportedly prepared to evacuate 70000 Jews in return for an agreement with the PA. This has been rejected by the PA. They want all 500000 Jews out.

Now that's pretty racist isn't it?

There is no point in impugning the character of those who post in these columns. Attack their message by all means but don't try to do so by attacking them personally. Everyone has their biases - even you Keith. However concentrate on the message and attack it -not the messanger - with well grounded argument.

I regret you have not seen fit to apologize.

Keith and Fellow_ Human

You clearly do not agree with my analysis.That is your prerogative.
I don't see you suggesting anything else to overcome the demise of the Roadmap other than the Arab League Initiative which mirrors the PA demands for all Jews to be kicked out of the West Bank and so it will not be acceptable to Israel on this one issue alone.

I think it is a waste of time to rehash the events of the last 60 years because trying to reach any consensus on them will end up in failure - like the Roadmap negotiations.

There is a dispute that has been ongoing for 130 years and needs to be resolved. I have put forward an idea on how to do just that.

If you don't agree as you both appear to do so - then so be it.

I hope I might be able to convince a lot more others to see its merits and hopefully see it tried to be implemented in the near future when the Roadmap is consigned to the dustbin of history - where I am now consigning this correspondence between us.

As they say in the movies - "No further correspondence will be entered into.
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 11 October 2008 7:44:59 AM
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David Singer,

I regret you will not recant your racist views or expunge your lies.

You haven't addressed my issues and especially the issue of the Palestinians dispossessed of their lands since '67, as you claimed you would.

True I do think the illegal settlers should be offered Palestinian citizenship. I don't think anyone else ever suggested that. Your assertion about ejection of the settlers is incorrect. The Palestinians simply want their stolen land returned. To suggest they wouldn't accomodate a solution as I have suggested again just shows your tunnel vision and inability to reject the stupid notions of Greater Israel, it's racist connotations or overcome your own racist view. Please try to remember even Israel has accepted the settlements as a problem and have offered a land exchange. The Palestinians, as is their right, have rejected that course and it is wrong of you to attempt to portray them as an impediment to peace because of that stance. The inital wrong is the land theft.

You like your idealogue mates in Israel simply want to legitimise the land stealing ... anyway you can. Your thinking of 'weight of numbers' is simply stupid and unjust.

So please don't put on your false face of reasonablness pretending you are looking for peaceful solutions.

You are not, you are simply a stupid liar who holds racist views.

Oh...have no doubt as Macather once said 'I will return'

And just for you from another of my great Liberal Democratic heros,

'Tear down this wall'.
Posted by keith, Saturday, 11 October 2008 12:37:13 PM
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Keith,

I wonder where it is you get the gall to demand anyone answer your silly rants, especially when you have declined to comment upon any of the questions I have put to you.

Your attempts to label David a racists are ironic in the extreme, given your support for Islamic racists.

Fellow Human

you say >> "Most if not all arabs would recognise Israel right to exist pre the 1967 war (ie before the lands that Israel captured in 1967"

WHAT?? ??. That is the most UNBELIEVABLE thing I have yet seen you post on OLO. Do you means all of those ARABS who didn't support the attempts to wipe the newly formed Israeli state OUT, in 1948? Or those Arabs who didn't support the warmongering and bloodthirsty NASSER in 1967?

ARE they the same people who did not support the next attempt in 1973 to drive all of the Jews into the sea?

Secondly, there seems to be some kind of viral infection going around and you and Keith have caught it. Its called wishful thimking.

you say >> " it's up to Israel to push for peace and make a deal before many different small groups start taking bites. By then it would be too late."

TOO LATE? Israel has no real internal threats. Not the type which could fundamentally destabilise the country, anyway. Israels only real threat is an nuclear armed Iran. If those internal groups of which you speak ever do get anywhere near the point where the state of Israel is at threat, the gloves will truly come off.

Israel is NOT in any mortal danger from these ragtag groups of Islamo-Facists.

However, it is in everyones interest for the conflict to be resolved in an equitable manner. It remains to be seen whether the Arabs can accept an equitable setllement after many years of being deluded by their leaders, Nasser style, that they could have it ALL.

The Refugees simply WILL NOT be going "home". Large numbers of settlers will STAY in their homes, outside the 1967 armistice lines.
Posted by Paul.L, Sunday, 12 October 2008 3:01:09 PM
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