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The Forum > Article Comments > Religion is an idea. Democracy is an expression > Comments

Religion is an idea. Democracy is an expression : Comments

By Richard Laidlaw, published 13/8/2008

The idea that you can brand members of a religion as 'a problem', because of their faith, is a monstrous negation of humanity.

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Candide,
Touché ... OK, not paraphrase but metaphrase, parallel, mimic or what you like. Anyhow, the juxtaposition of the two sentences (the original one and the artificial one, obtained by cutting and pasting just a couple of words) together with the following reference to the two extremist and intolerant positions, should have made it clear what I had in mind.
Posted by George, Friday, 15 August 2008 12:57:20 AM
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"IamJoseph.
Your point was lost in the inaccuracies.Just a few points to consider.

1/ Medieval period didn’t start until several hundred years after Islam."

The fulcrum point is the term medevial and European Christianity's early history, as opposed its dating. The medevial factors kick in with the very take over of the church from Rome, elevating the premise of heresy far more than did Rome - the figures of murdered peoples is not inaccurate for those who know their history.

"2 / Have you heard of Context? Pope Pious the what said that? And under what circumstances?"

The circumstances are that when a religion appears, it does not persecute exiled peoples for their beliefs, and also barr them from returning to their own land. Pope Pious' actions led to the holocaust and many being killed before that time - while being witness Europe stole the land from Jews. That Pope was lieing from every cell in his being, impudently, and in reverse mode what a Godly priest should have done.

"3/ Pres Nasser Has been dead for over 20 years he made that statement before’67 war (I think). There has been a peace treaty or two since then. Again the Context defines the quote."

Nasser emulated the same doctrine of those regimes who attacked Israel in '48, making a mockery of the UN's lack of Resolution - thus the Arabs became emboldened to repeat their crimes.

"4/ Churchill said that in the at least 60 years ago, come on!"

It does not alter the crime of it, but puts PAID to Briton's honor and pledges before the world. Churchill was the real Judas - for 30 barrels of oil.

"5/The origins of Zionism go back to 1800’s in Russia and was heavily influenced by European nationalist thinking of the time. "

Not so. The re-establishment of Israel came 150 years before and from America. Briton reluctantly issued the Balfour via American pressure.
Posted by IamJoseph, Friday, 15 August 2008 3:48:52 PM
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"6/Jordan was created well after the Jews had started to migrate to Palestine. So your point about "when they were at their most helpless" is supposed to mean."

The point is, Jordan was a corruption of the Balfour, and was never required, specially not handed over to a Saudi family. In fact, the Brits had no right to establish so many Arab states, then carve out 60% of the land allocated to the jews. Briton is also lieing when she again calls another 3rd division as a 2-state. Briton did similar in India - a corruption of the Arab pressure. Now Londonistan is being taken over by that same weapon.

"7/Jordan is the peace maker in the area."

Jordan is Israel's worst enemy and the cause of all the wars today - not only via her creation, but also by violating the only condition of her creation: to house the arabs in Palestine. Jordan barred 30% of the arabs - to create a sore unto Israel. Jordan erected signs before '67: DOGS & JEWS FORBIDDEN IN EAST JERUSALEM. Jordan should be dismantled and the Brits taken to task - if you want to save that nation's name and future.

"8/ Syria lost territory to Israel in the 67 war. They are hostile to Israel. "

That's an incomplete statement. Syria five times attacked Israel, in violation of the UN. Land lost in such a case is not returnable.

"Your grasp on Middle Eastern history appears some what tenuous. "

I don't think so. Check your history books again.
Posted by IamJoseph, Friday, 15 August 2008 3:49:43 PM
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IamJoseph.
I'm intrigued which sources of information please send me the titles so I can read them.
The Haskala (Jewish awakening) took place after 1770 from in Germany subsequent to Rising of European nationalism of the time.

After particularly bad Pogrom (anti Jewish riot in the Russian Empire) early 1882. The Ottoman Empire allowed some Jews to migrate to Palestine. The 1st wave of migration (aliyah) lasted until 1900 and was funded by baron de Rothschild. However most Jews migrated to the US. But it wasn't until Theodor Herzel (1860-1904) called the first Zionist Congress was in 1897 that it became a organized movement.. !903 Herzel negotiated with British Colonial Secretary, Joseph Chamberlain over Uganda being the Jewish homeland but his insistence on Palestine split the Zionists. Where you get the 1660 start is a mystery.

I would like to read the sources for your assertions your answers (such as they were) seem to have a muddled time line.
Your views seem more influenced by Zionist (now Israeli mythology and propaganda.) than facts.
Islam started about 600 AD the (Dark ages 400 -1000ish AD.) during this period Islam was the keepers of civilization science, maths, philosophy etc.

Pope Pius XII 1939-1953 did not cause the holocaust. He just didn’t condemn it.
Posted by examinator, Saturday, 16 August 2008 12:24:23 AM
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"Where you get the 1660 start is a mystery."

US Christian Zionists discover Israel
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4950.htm

The first lobbying effort on behalf of a Jewish state in Palestine was not organized or initiated by Jews. It occurred in 1891, when a popular fundamentalist Christian writer and lay-preacher, William E. Blackstone, organized a national campaign to appeal to the then-president of the United States, Benjamin Harrison, to support the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

John Adams embraces
a Jewish homeland
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/adams_jews.htm

In an 1808 letter criticizing the depiction of Jews by the French Enlightenment philosopher Voltaire, Adams expressed his respect for ancient Jewry. Adams wrote of Voltaire, "How is it possible [that he] should represent the Hebrews in such a contemptible light? They are the most glorious nation that ever inhabited this Earth. The Romans and their Empire were but a Bauble in comparison of the Jews. They have given religion to three quarters of the Globe and have influenced the affairs of Mankind more, and more happily, than any other Nation ancient or modern. For I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation."
Posted by IamJoseph, Saturday, 16 August 2008 4:03:42 PM
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"during this period Islam was the keepers of civilization science, maths, philosophy etc."

How so? While all nations contribute to humanity, maths was hardly a muslim premise [the first scientific cencus, in the millions, is in the book of Exodus - 2000 years before Islam or Arabic writings emerged. You have not regarded that when Islam emerged, the jews were in Arab lands and embedded within the core of Islamic administrations and institutions - but when the Jews were expelled, the vacuum is evident. The Quran itself is a document which lifted off the OT: the pre-islamic arabs had no writings or monotheistic beliefs till Islam emerged, and when Jews were in their midst throughout that time. Connect the dots.

"Pope Pius XII 1939-1953 did not cause the holocaust. He just didn’t condemn it."

The vatican has already admitted the Holocaust was a 'direct' result of medevial and later European christianity. There are passages in Mathew and Luther's writings which eerilly resemble Nazism and Hitler's Mein Kampf. Pope Pious did not just refrain from condemnation, but actively negated the return of the Jews to their homeland, for the vilest of reasons:

'WE WILL NEVER SUPPORT THE RETURN OF THE JEWS TO THEIR HOMELAND BECAUSE THEY REJECTED JESUS'

Should Europe be cleansed of christians for rejecting Mohammed?
Posted by IamJoseph, Saturday, 16 August 2008 4:16:06 PM
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