HRS,
You seem to be surprised a lot. Perhaps you’ll also find it surprising that your arguments about abortion and feminism are moot because abortion rates are much lower in countries where women have more equal rights than in countries where women have very little or no rights.

Countries with the most liberal abortion laws happen to have the lowest abortion rates in the world.

And do you know WHY abortion rates are so low in those countries?
Guess what- even though women have easy access to abortion, they do not need the service much at all.
Why not?
Because women prefer to avoid abortions.
Because women know that abortion involves risk.
Because women have better options.
Because women are educated about sex & drugs & birth control.
Because women have easy access to contraception.

So it is not easy access to abortion that leads to problems; it is lack of education and equal rights for women that is the real problem.

You have hijacked the word feminism.
A proper definition of feminism: “The principle that women should have political, economic and social rights equal to those of men.”
There, there, does that sound so bad?

Why I called you a misogynist?
If you are not a supporter of feminism then I can only conclude that you are a misogynist- why else would you want to deny women equal rights?

There is one thing I do agree with, which is that there should be more encouragement for people to adopt a child. The difficulty is often the long and draining adoption process. The process should be quicker and more efficient. My neighbour had been trying to adopt a child for years, put on some weight in the meantime and then was told that she needs to lose weight before she can be reconsidered.

Now, I am really interested to read your thoughts on the actual topic, if you can manage to put aside your anger over your past relationship, uterus envy or whatever it is that bothers you.

I see that Timkins is off his medication again.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/user.asp?id=6333

Celivia,
The problem regards the increased rate of abortions of baby girls in some areas of India could be easily solved by restricting the number of times that a woman is told that their unborn child is a boy or a girl.

The problem of the decreasing rate that boys are being born world wide is much more difficult to solve, which is possibly the reason why feminists don’t mention it much, or they consider baby boys to have no value anyway.

The definition of feminism is meaningless unless it is be carried out, but unfortunately there is minimal evidence to suggest that feminists do consider females equal to males, and not more equal than equal.

There is no equality in feminism, and most other “isms”.

In some countries, if you don’t call yourself an “ist”, (such as a communist or an Islamist) then you can be imprisoned, beaten, and even executed. Many aware and loving feminists carry out a form of this, by calling someone a misogynist if they don’t call themselves a feminist.

Aware and loving feminists such as yourself should live in a country where it is compulsory for people to call themselves an “ist”, to see what it is like.

In a number of Asian countries, abortion is routinely carried out as a form of contraception, with no other forms of contraception being used. I have heard of no opposition to this from aware and loving feminists.

It is also being thought that the relatively high number of abortions occurring in Australia is because of the high number of abortions being carried out on Asian immigrant women in city areas, who are using no forms of contraception. Again I have heard of no opposition to this from aware and loving feminists.

What is the problem with choosing abortion as the preferred method of contraception? It doesn't conform to European Christian values but who is to say that those values are immutably right.

What does it matter if there are a declining number of boys, after all you only need one sperm donor to artificially inseminate thousands of women. farmers have been doing it in animal husbandry for centuries without any ill effects.

HRS “I would have thought that infanticide and abortion are connected.”

I think not.

Abortion is a decision based on one set of parameters (woman does not want to be pregnant), the infanticide being discussed in the article is a decision based on entirely different parameters (female child is not the desired result).

“It is difficult to have infanticide without abortion.”

Actually quite the opposite is really true. More abortions would result in fewer infanticides and fewer abortions likely to produce greater incidence of infanticide.

“Abortion is very important for feminists, similar to divorce, abduction of children from fathers, distortion of information, lying, denigration of males, living of the taxpayer, and artificial reproduction.”

I am the divorced father of two daughters. Abortion is very important to me.

Not because I have ever or will ever need one but because I demand sovereignty over my own body and believe in gender equality so extend sovereignty to every other person, regardless of gender.

As to the suggestion “The problem regards the increased rate of abortions of baby girls in some areas of India could be easily solved by restricting the number of times that a woman is told that their unborn child is a boy or a girl.”

And increase the number of infanticides.

However, the conduct of Indian peasants is a matter for Indian peasants to live with, doubtless better access to cheaper contraception would help a lot, fewer abortions, fewer infanticides. I do recall some time ago there was a massive wave of vasectomies being conducted in India.

As one who has had a vasectomy, I can assure you it is a simple and effective method of avoiding the need for both abortion and infanticide.

HRS,
In your first post you said, “… misinformation, suppression of information… play a part in the debate regards abortion...”
In your last post, you said, “… restricting the number of times that a woman is told that their unborn child is a boy or a girl.”
Hmmmm, I thought you had a problem with misinformation and suppression of information.

Besides, you are STILL missing the point even though Yvonne spelled it out so clearly, “The only issue in this debate is why are male infants valued and female infants not.”
Withholding this info from women serves a dysfunctional society and is not a cure for it.
And as Col and I both pointed out, more abortions result in fewer infanticides. There can be no infanticide without infants.

If both sexes were equally valued, women wouldn’t be pressured into aborting girl foetuses and people would not kill girls.

Billy,
“What is the problem with choosing abortion as the preferred method of contraception?”
Abortions are more of a health risk than proper methods of contraception, especially a whole series of abortions. It is also far more costly.
The best long-term form of contraception would be, as Col pointed out, a vasectomy/sterilisation. Much less risky than a series of abortions. My husband had a vasectomy also, after the birth of our two children. Before that I used a combination of IUD and the pill, to make sure. I would find it very hard, emotionally, to have an abortion. Too many people look at abortion only from a clinical perspective, but for pregnant women it can really put a strain on their emotions.
For me, an unwanted pregnancy would have forced me to make an almost impossible decision- whether to carry a pregnancy full term or terminate it.

That’s why I think it is very important that all women have easy access to safe and affordable birth control.
I deeply feel for the women who are not free to make their own decisions, like those women in India.
Abortion is almost never an isolated decision.