Chin Jin on "South Korea was responsive to international political pressure, and it has advanced accordingly"

The question is "Is South Korea an independent country?" and "where does South Korea come from?".

After South Korean got the full "independent" ability, they have the luxury to share the democracy.

Jin,

I think contributors deserve some feedback from you given there effort and comments. How about it?

I think Jin is having trouble typing a response, for all the tears of laughter at the Revelation talk the article has generated. Certainly brings a smile to my face.

IN RESPONSE:

Jin, I don’t think China is being ‘appeased’ at all. It was actually very frustrated with the so called ‘western media’ for its reporting of Tibet, it is always frustrated at every Government that allows the Dalai entry to talk and raise money, and if I had a dollar for every time they’ve accused a country/institution/individual for ‘interfering with internal affairs’, I’d be very wealthy. I think it’s far more dangerous to follow your line of thought to conclusion and pressure a nuclear-China into a corner. You should have a look at the history books and see where nations have flourished after having any divergent political system forced upon them from the outside, including multi-party democracy. Not many, I promise. The people have to want it, and slowly but surely, I see signs that they do AND that the CCP is slowly changing.

I don’t however think they deserved the Olympics just yet, so perhaps we agree on this

John Dorey,

Democracies are hard to come by. We are lucky to be living in time in a sphere of the World with democracy on the ascendency. Yet, we must realise that democracy is fragile, given the power brokers of any era, including our own. Power deeds to be mediated by the People.

Moreover, there is more than one kind of democracy. The Greeks had a collectivist and limited democracy. The Anglo-Western democracy is liberal, indididualist. German & Italy, in recent history, swapped democracy for State Capitalism, but have fortunately come back to the fold, Laissaire Faire Capitalism, inside free democracies.

Even in deep histographies China has not been a majot power. It did succeed over much less developed empires to its South, but for much of the time was militarily subordinate to the Manchus and the Mongols, whom had better access to Arbian horse stock. Even under Mao, Russia could have taken China at will; Russia's concern would not have been Beijing but Washington.

Jin seems to vanished from the scene.

Cheers.

p.s. their not there, of course, regaring earlier post.

hmmm, the ole post and run trick?

Oliver,
yes, there are many types of democracy and their creation does come through some fragility. I would say however, that modern democracies, those established within the last 100 years have became extremely robust. For example, America has been decimated, in my humble opinion, by neo-con policy lately. Such that its citizens are now looking to overthrow the ruler, however the only coup d'etat will come by way of americans voting for someone else. Hopefully without too much violence, but you can never tell with the US I guess. Anyway, my point being that democracy does seem to become strong enough to handle widespread grievances in an effective manner. For China to become a 'robust' democracy will take time. tens of thousands of protests are happening in China each year, mostly by peasant workers/farmers. If the CCP manages to increase the quality of their livlihoods without the introduction of even some democratic principles, I would be suprised. These small edgings forward is what has allowed for the 200 million or so Chinese that live relatively comfortably now.

To get back to Jin's point, I think the question is 'how do we remain engaged with China' rather than the West pushing China to democracy.

Did you notice that the leader of the new KMT Gov in Taiwan is having talks with Hu Jintao at the moment? (in Beijing i believe). This is a small example of democracy working its ways, and Taiwan is not really part of the 'west'.

We would do well to stay away from them rather than try and get them involved in anything we would do.

The Chinese are infamous for manipulation, as is seen in their manouvering in many a UN event.

They already have young Kevin Rudd in their back pocket seduced and "pipe smoking" his dreams of things Chinese, or so it seems, and that is the beginning of a long road that could see a communist government here on day.
A thousand Chinese spies arent here for nothing (Chen Yonglin).
Part of their job will be to ease us into the Chinese way. The other part will be to map and photo everything for the future invasion of New South China.