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The Forum > Article Comments > Why is the West different from the rest? > Comments

Why is the West different from the rest? : Comments

By Ellen Goodman, published 20/5/2008

An outline of the centuries-long, tortuous and often fortuitous route by which 'democracy' became established in the Western world.

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Mercurius,

GREAT Work.

Others,

So communism failed. Capitalism may also still fail eventually. Nothing is either all good or all bad. For instance, remember those news reals showing all those 'terrible' soviet countries where the women handed off their children to child care and then went to work? Exactly where capitalism has ended up isn't it?

Also capitalism and 'the West' had a hand in communism failing. I'm no commie, or even a socialist, but I have no fear of people who believe that SOME good aspects of communism and socialism were thrown out with the bath water.

The world is so much more complex than either/or. You lot sound so scared of the reds under the bed.
Posted by Usual Suspect, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:21:21 PM
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Mercurius

I might refer you to Orwell's 'Nineteen Eighty Four' for a modern view of the relevance of the past to our present and our future.

I agree much of our history is happenchance but it is written in the books and stories that have continued their journey through and survived the various stages, colours, flavours and disgraces of our past.

At each new stage we have tried to adopt the best and leave the worst behind us. We still try to apply and improve upon the lessons of those stories and philosophies.

Please note it is the labor party and it's socialist minions who have tried to dominate the teaching of our kids in our primary and secondary schools and now Rudd intends the same in our preschool child care. They've absolutely failed to dominate our universities and we are all too aware of the socialisrt stupidities being carried on in those institutions. Yet we still turn out an educated effective elite comprising our Engineers, Doctors, Scientists, Mathematicians and Philosophers and many impartial Lawyers who make it onto the Bench and uphold it's traditions. And the really silly thing is that those of a socialist idealogy who gain accesss to this elite seem to adopt the liberal democrat philosophies more readily than most, and abandon the socialist idealogy as quickly as they don the all to comfortable and obvious liberal attitude. Really very odd really. Orwell's 'Animal Farm' gives a reasonable account of this particular idiocy.

Many of Franz Kafka's books are worth a read in this particular area of history, culture, the courts and political systems.

This is Western history and culture in action and it is just as valid as other cultures and their particular pathways... and many other cultures seem to want to adopt it too...
Posted by keith, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:57:59 PM
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keith,

'the labor party and it's socialist minions who have tried to dominate the teaching of our kids in our primary and secondary schools'

Oh yes, it's a reds under the bed conspiracy? Or maybe not...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/if-leftleaning-teachers-offend-why-not-join-their-lowpaid-ranks/2008/03/14/1205472079209.html?page=2

'Teachers are unlikely to be diehard capitalists or economic rationalists: by definition they have chosen a path which is economically irrational.
'

' I think the Young Liberals are probably correct that the average teacher is pinker than the average citizen. The trouble is they are laying the blame in the wrong place. The Young Liberals want to blame teachers. I say blame conservatives who are too money hungry and lacking in community spirit to go into a profession like teaching in the first place.

If the Young Libs want to correct the balance, they should be campaigning for their members to get off their blaming, finger-pointing behinds, show some initiative and enrol in education courses. They can restore the balance by forsaking well-paid careers, then setting a good example by ensuring they never show even a hint of a political slant in the classroom.
'
Posted by Usual Suspect, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 2:27:13 PM
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How quaintly gullible --is the "empty vessel" idea of education.

Would this perhaps be the pap that a certain religion--PUMPS out under
the guise of LEADERS and CIVIC SERVICE-and the immature adult equates as an educated right to claim:

"Please note it is the labor party and it's socialist minions who have tried to dominate the teaching of our kids in our primary and secondary schools and now Rudd intends the same in our preschool child care.

They've absolutely failed to dominate our universities and we are all too aware of the socialisrt stupidities being carried on in those institutions."

One nation leader ended in prison where she should have--why not
exercise you own gifts similarly--theres no place for UNSUBSTANTIATED BILE in any country.
Posted by mcpherson, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 2:41:37 PM
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When analysing why the West is different; it is necessary to regard dmocracy, liberalism and individualism as separate contrusya, and, reach a valid separate internal consistencu of each construct.

The Great Divergence circa 1760 is very significant what had been brewing for four hunderd years came to the boil we learned how to learn. We applied Epistime to Techne., leaving other civilizations far behind, scientically and methodically.

As pointed out by the author, our Greco-Latin heritage was important as was occupying Spai, after the Muslims. Further, the establinment of a "Constitutional" Monarchy leading to Democracy governed by The People.

As I think both Toynbe and Qugley note, civilizations end [there have been 23], when those in power create stagnation by maintaing the status qou for themselves: It prevents progress.

The West has been more able adapt than most in meeting external challenges. Herein some civilizationalist researchers refer to our era as West III.

Had the Chinese Mophists [not a strong group] and Greeks linked, perhaps we would have seen a Western style science three hundred years ago.

Also the Churches have always been a problem given their desire to control knowledge to interpreted bt their authority for the laity.



Cheers.

O.
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 2:52:21 PM
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I don't think it was a matter of Communism/Socialism "failing" as much as being deliberately dismantled by internal corruption. There are now more billionaires in the old USSR than in the USA but the average people still seem to suffer. Not so much as a testament to the wonders of Capitalism as much as the result of opportunism by certain Party members who saw a once-in-a-lifetime chance to plunder the vaults.
China isn't exactly a basket case and Cuba still survives.

Here in the West we are heading more toward middle-class welfare and growing limits to freedom that we so evil not too long ago.

Eventually when there are no more markets or resources to develop and exploit, where will we go then?

An interesting article, but I think we are Democratic by name only in many ways.

Just as the "failure" of one regime is just a sweeping generalisation, so too is the concept of true democracy.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 4:16:10 PM
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