I love these sorts of articles. I had no idea how far down the roots of our political system went. Thanks.

Congratulations Ellen.

This has got to be thew best article ever published by OLO.

It should be required reading in every school in every year for every Australian child.

It's contents should be the cornerstone of any test of knowledge for new iimmigrants.

Politicians should be required to recite it from memory ... every day... and some hourly.

Public Servents should be required to read it every morning.

Flouters of the conventions involved should have it tattooed on their foreheads.

Ellen,

Excellent article. I will need to come-back and have a closer look.

A few quick points, though:

The various City-States of Ancient Greece had autonomy to determine their own form of democracy. Plato didn't believe in the rule of the many. Greek democracy was collectivist rather invidualist in nature, because individuuals identified themselves with community life (Wasserman, 1941).

Under the Roman Republic democratic ideals gained the protection of legal doctrine.

I was at seminar in Hong Kong and met Gore Vidal, who said the US never wanted full democracy. Note it has an Electoral College and the French concept of Fraternity is missing its Declaration of Independence. The Amercian colonies may have accepted taxes had they achieved citizenship representation in the HP in England.

The Protestant Reformation allowed for private conscience to develop, so individuals could thing for themselves.

It is clear that the West has a cultural tradition which we should be proud of. The black armband gang would have us believe that we should be ashamed of our culture and stress the equality of all cultural and social traditions. This is patently false.

The soft left in general needs a reality check or, at the very least, a better sense of perspective.

Ellen,

In my re-read, I do note you did mention Plato and alluded the significance of Roman Lawn. I apologise.

Many of the ideas of the [esoteric] Attic Greeks would have been lost when the Western Empire fell [476]. One reason would have been the switch from the Attic Greek to Vulgar Latin and Koine Greek. Spain was significant in knowledge transfers given he various occupations by the Muslims and Christians.

I would like to see the [Australia] People have the power to ostracise a Leader from Office, without necessily changing Parties.

There was an attempt to form a democray in Iceland circa. 1100, but I don't remember the details. TV documentary.

Kind regards.

Why is the West different from the rest?
Because the West or more precisely the advanced capitalist countries have repressed them, held back their development, and plundered their resources. Known as colonial plunder that was often dressed up as humanitarian aid, the white mans burden, or at times democracy.
What a paupers broth and sham is Ellens so called democracy. We get no sense that this "democracy" is only the rule of a financial aristocracy or ruling elite. Who make all the decisions at the expense of society and ruin life for the mass majority. How Murdoch or the Packers pick the politicians and promote them as statesmen whilst giving them their daily orders. Who today are stealing or wrecking all the essential services and resources called privatisation.
In Ellens "democracy" we get no sense that 600 million child labors globally are exploited by day and abused by night. Nor the criminal war taking place in Iraq for oil that has cost the lives of 2.4 million and 4 million homeless done under the guise of democracy. Nor how the governments are putting the boot into the disabled. Nor the war being carried out against aboriginals in the Northern Territory.

This is a very top down view of democracy. Ellen doesn't deal with the mass struggles from below for democracy. She mentions the English Civil war and the French Revolution, but mises the important point that these were among other things festivals of the oppressed when the mass of humanity entered onto the landscape of history.

The struggle for union rights and the vote shows in fact that our rulers opposed democracy for all (at least in Britain and even in the US where the revolution from below did not see blacks as equal).

The development of British and European capitalism was built on exploitation at home - eg driving the peasants off the land and into the factories, turning them into wage slaves - and exploitation abroad - the process of colonisation which saw the British especially but also the Spanish, Portuguese and French plunder the riches of the world and suppress the local populations for cheap products.

And there is no mention of working class revolutions like the Paris Commune and the 1917 Russian revolution, revolutions from below which saw the most democratic form of government established - workers councils with the right of automatic recall, the average wage for representatives, elected through the workplace with constant debates going on there and in the workers' councils and so on. The rise of Stalinism represented the counter-revolution and the destruction of these ideals.

The magnificent revolutions in eastern Europe to overthrow Stalinism show that the thirst for freedom and democracy lives on in the heart of working people everywhere. In fact I would go so far as to say the very process of capitalist production hot wires this thirst for freedom and democracy into workers.

That is why, like the twentieth century, the twenty first century will also be the century of revolution.

Passy

Democracy is still working and evolving...
Socialism failed. As did your revolutions... But you seem to be still spinning.
Time to leave the failures behind Passy.

Much interesting material here. A couple of comments. First, the Romans actually had secret ballots and organised the early political protection of underrepresented groups, the Tribunes of the People, and effectively proto-political parties. This was all turned to tokenism under the Empire, but remained a model right through western history. It is a pity that Ellen's article makes no mention of the republican commune city states of medieval Italy. These influenced the English barons, invented commercial merchant wealth, a kind of free enterprise model of social groups, other than church and king, and were open if not fully democratic. Cambridge historian Quentin Skinner says the Italian city states of middle ages are important in the history of democracy and that they left a legacy of 'participation'. Finally,as practiced, democracy has always been flawed and bitter bottom up struggles for rights have been needed to defend and extend it, often ruthlessly crushed, in Europe as elsewhere.

johncee

Flight Centre has a special offer on flights to Cuba.

Pack your bags and get on the next flight, then you can live your dream or delusion -- take your pick.

Roll up, Roll up people, who wants to see the last surviving communists in captivity.

Look no further than comrade Johncee1945 and comrade Passy. These two are among the few of these endangered species still practicing their bizarre cult in the wild. The failure of communism and socialism globally has not registered in these small brained mammals. Their numbers were understandably thinned after the wall came down in 1989 and the brutality of their socialist paradises became clear to all but the most ardent supporters. However, a small number, perhaps hiding underground for the last 50 years, have survived to carry on the species to protect against extinction.

We are proud to present johncee the walking talking human slogan. And Passy, the irrepressible fantasist. Please people, don't feed the animals. They are nurtured on a special diet of Marxist "media" and pseudo green religous fervor. Anything else might break the spell and leave the species extinct. And we can't have that, can we?

Scientists are working every day to extract DNA from these creatures and recreate them in the laboratory for study. It seems they have not yet found any practical use for them, however. They're still looking.

Why are some posters so quick to claim this history of completely different times, places, traditions, nations, people and races as "our" culture or "our" heritage?

An uncritical reading of history tends to create the sense of a linear, narrative drive of progress towards our current "perfected" state. This is an illusion.

The events of history are mostly a result of happenstance, opportunism, pragmatism and a good dose of rat-cunning on the part of the participants. As Hamlet said "There's a special providence in the fall of a sparrow."

If you want to wrap up that whole disparate mass of events into a bundle and call it "our" culture, go ahead, but you're basically doing the same thing as tribal people who paint on the walls of their cave and make up stories to go with them. Oh look, the Big Hunter killed the Big Moose. We're proud he did that. Let's make it part of "our" culture.

What is this unitary 'West'? Remember that the various democracies set up in the 'West' were usually done in the face of mortal opposition from members of the very same 'West'. Those murderous despots, those bloodthirsty crusading kings, tyrants - and yes, Stalin and Hitler too - they are all part of this 'West' that you wish to proudly claim as "our" culture.

Why not leave the cultural baggage to the dead people and stop looking for your future in the past?

Mercurius,

GREAT Work.

Others,

So communism failed. Capitalism may also still fail eventually. Nothing is either all good or all bad. For instance, remember those news reals showing all those 'terrible' soviet countries where the women handed off their children to child care and then went to work? Exactly where capitalism has ended up isn't it?

Also capitalism and 'the West' had a hand in communism failing. I'm no commie, or even a socialist, but I have no fear of people who believe that SOME good aspects of communism and socialism were thrown out with the bath water.

The world is so much more complex than either/or. You lot sound so scared of the reds under the bed.

Mercurius

I might refer you to Orwell's 'Nineteen Eighty Four' for a modern view of the relevance of the past to our present and our future.

I agree much of our history is happenchance but it is written in the books and stories that have continued their journey through and survived the various stages, colours, flavours and disgraces of our past.

At each new stage we have tried to adopt the best and leave the worst behind us. We still try to apply and improve upon the lessons of those stories and philosophies.

Please note it is the labor party and it's socialist minions who have tried to dominate the teaching of our kids in our primary and secondary schools and now Rudd intends the same in our preschool child care. They've absolutely failed to dominate our universities and we are all too aware of the socialisrt stupidities being carried on in those institutions. Yet we still turn out an educated effective elite comprising our Engineers, Doctors, Scientists, Mathematicians and Philosophers and many impartial Lawyers who make it onto the Bench and uphold it's traditions. And the really silly thing is that those of a socialist idealogy who gain accesss to this elite seem to adopt the liberal democrat philosophies more readily than most, and abandon the socialist idealogy as quickly as they don the all to comfortable and obvious liberal attitude. Really very odd really. Orwell's 'Animal Farm' gives a reasonable account of this particular idiocy.

Many of Franz Kafka's books are worth a read in this particular area of history, culture, the courts and political systems.

This is Western history and culture in action and it is just as valid as other cultures and their particular pathways... and many other cultures seem to want to adopt it too...

keith,

'the labor party and it's socialist minions who have tried to dominate the teaching of our kids in our primary and secondary schools'

Oh yes, it's a reds under the bed conspiracy? Or maybe not...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/if-leftleaning-teachers-offend-why-not-join-their-lowpaid-ranks/2008/03/14/1205472079209.html?page=2

'Teachers are unlikely to be diehard capitalists or economic rationalists: by definition they have chosen a path which is economically irrational.
'

' I think the Young Liberals are probably correct that the average teacher is pinker than the average citizen. The trouble is they are laying the blame in the wrong place. The Young Liberals want to blame teachers. I say blame conservatives who are too money hungry and lacking in community spirit to go into a profession like teaching in the first place.

If the Young Libs want to correct the balance, they should be campaigning for their members to get off their blaming, finger-pointing behinds, show some initiative and enrol in education courses. They can restore the balance by forsaking well-paid careers, then setting a good example by ensuring they never show even a hint of a political slant in the classroom.
'

How quaintly gullible --is the "empty vessel" idea of education.

Would this perhaps be the pap that a certain religion--PUMPS out under
the guise of LEADERS and CIVIC SERVICE-and the immature adult equates as an educated right to claim:

"Please note it is the labor party and it's socialist minions who have tried to dominate the teaching of our kids in our primary and secondary schools and now Rudd intends the same in our preschool child care.

They've absolutely failed to dominate our universities and we are all too aware of the socialisrt stupidities being carried on in those institutions."

One nation leader ended in prison where she should have--why not
exercise you own gifts similarly--theres no place for UNSUBSTANTIATED BILE in any country.

When analysing why the West is different; it is necessary to regard dmocracy, liberalism and individualism as separate contrusya, and, reach a valid separate internal consistencu of each construct.

The Great Divergence circa 1760 is very significant what had been brewing for four hunderd years came to the boil we learned how to learn. We applied Epistime to Techne., leaving other civilizations far behind, scientically and methodically.

As pointed out by the author, our Greco-Latin heritage was important as was occupying Spai, after the Muslims. Further, the establinment of a "Constitutional" Monarchy leading to Democracy governed by The People.

As I think both Toynbe and Qugley note, civilizations end [there have been 23], when those in power create stagnation by maintaing the status qou for themselves: It prevents progress.

The West has been more able adapt than most in meeting external challenges. Herein some civilizationalist researchers refer to our era as West III.

Had the Chinese Mophists [not a strong group] and Greeks linked, perhaps we would have seen a Western style science three hundred years ago.

Also the Churches have always been a problem given their desire to control knowledge to interpreted bt their authority for the laity.



Cheers.

O.

I don't think it was a matter of Communism/Socialism "failing" as much as being deliberately dismantled by internal corruption. There are now more billionaires in the old USSR than in the USA but the average people still seem to suffer. Not so much as a testament to the wonders of Capitalism as much as the result of opportunism by certain Party members who saw a once-in-a-lifetime chance to plunder the vaults.
China isn't exactly a basket case and Cuba still survives.

Here in the West we are heading more toward middle-class welfare and growing limits to freedom that we so evil not too long ago.

Eventually when there are no more markets or resources to develop and exploit, where will we go then?

An interesting article, but I think we are Democratic by name only in many ways.

Just as the "failure" of one regime is just a sweeping generalisation, so too is the concept of true democracy.

PAUL L... u missed out on Comrade Mercurious :) on your list.. (sorry Merc but you do have 'different' views on things)

WHITE SHEET (Western Democratic roots/traditions)....with a black dot in the middle.(various despots and would be tyrants)

"WHAT...do you see"? asks the teacher holding up the sheet to the class.'
"We see a black dot" they chime... aah.. some see only the small insignificant black dot rather than the sheet it was painted on.

BD now introduces "MERCURIOUS the EXISTENTIALIST" Well hi there folks :)

<<Why not leave the cultural baggage to the dead people and stop looking for your future in the past?>>

Merc.. of ALL people.. "you" being Jewish should know 2 things.

1/ How far back the wonderful traditions of your own people go, and how wonderfully social welfare was developed in that society of Ancient Israel.

2/ How CLOSE history came to wiping out YOU and yours, with the rise of the 3rd Reich.

You should also know that 'living for the moment' and not considering the past in our contemplation of the future is irrational in the extreme, but it does explain some of your other material 0_^

For me.. I see 2 other major pivotal points in History, 732 and 1683
I think by now you know to what I'm referring.. two 'how close it came' battles which, if lost, would have ended any chance of democracy that could ever enjoy.

ENGLISH CIVIL WAR was TOTally different from the French Revolution, and was about freedom of worship, not about lack of bread.

OLIVER.. are we on the same linguistic planet old son? I sometimes have to pray for the gift of "Interpretation of Tongues" to understand some of your words :)

Capitalism and democracy are two different ideas. China and Russia are largely capitalist but not exactly democratic.

We should also remember that democracy is very fragile and has to come from within. I don't think it can be imposed by outsiders. eg After WWI in 1919 most of Europe was democratic 15 years later much of it was run by dictators.

The European Union has been very effective to lure southern, central and eastern Europe into democracy with promises of wealth and high living standards but within the scale of this article it is brand new.

Paul L and Cowboy Joe fail to mention their right wing reactionary politics. The very political tendency workers have been fighting all their life; rightwing nationalist politics. For instance, the rightwing always fight to get to the head of every dispute so they can sell it out.

The socialists are not the only ones who see the failure and tendencies of the capitalist system based on exploiting labor and every aspect of life that turns a profit. The Financial Times last week published an admonishing column by David Rothkopf, author of Superclass: The Global Power Elite and the World They are Making.

“The credit crisis is exacerbating the emerging backlash against corporate excess,” he wrote. “Elites make billions on markets whether they go up or down and their institutions win government support while the little guy loses his home. Multinational chief executives 30 years ago made 35 times the wages of an average employee; today it is more than 350 times. The crisis has focused attention on the obscene inequities of this era—the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion.”
As Marx wrote back in the late 1840's:“Accumulation of wealth at one pole,” he wrote, “is, therefore, at the same time accumulation of misery, agony of toil, slavery, ignorance, brutality, mental degradation, at the opposite pole, i.e., on the side of the class that produces its product in the form of capital.

“There is not one source of authority - there are many.”

And I believe the success of any society is the devolution of that authority as far out as possible / practicable, away from a centralist system of government.

Hence, people free to cut their own way through their lives rather than being hamstrung by the edicts of central / state governments.

Government cut back to a minimum, with limited powers reduces the opportunity for despots and makes life better / safer for us all.

Passy “The magnificent revolutions in eastern Europe to overthrow Stalinism show that the thirst for freedom and democracy lives on in the heart of working people everywhere. “

Those against Stalinism must have been after he died. They certainly did not happen when he was alive.

Or, are you talking about those who tore down the Berlin Wall and embraced market capitalism as the future, after decades of socialist mediocrity?

“In fact I would go so far as to say the very process of capitalist production hot wires this thirst for freedom and democracy into workers.”

Na, too busy being earning overtime and paying off the car loan.

Like Keith said “Time to leave the failures behind Passy.”

US “Capitalism may also still fail eventually.”

It might but it has succeeded for centuries whilst communism was inflicted and failed after only 7 decades.

Re communist ladies versus the capitalist ladies giving over their children, the difference

Commie gals were forced, by order of the state.

Capitalist gals is her choice.

Re “choice”, history would suggest, having a communist system is something which no one gets to vote on anyway.

btw I am not scared of the reds-under-the-bed, I just like to remember and learn from the lessons of history.

Regarding the English Civil War - The Lord Protector, Oliver Cromwell, when he died was replaced by who ?

what happened to poor old Ollies remains?

He was posthumously beheaded, hardly a good reference for revolutionaries.

And the French revolution, who was responsible for period affectionately called “the Terror”

This wage slave, right wing reactionary has also been a union rep, currently a union member and was once a member of the United Mine Workers.

It flabbergasts me that there are still living anachronisms who think the ills of capitalism justify communism.

Capitalism in the USA is highly regulated, anti trust legislation that leaves Australia's for dead, low or nil taxes for low wage earners. Corporations are regulated hence one reason for the spike in fuel prices since the 'left' has prevented any new oil refineries in the US for over 35 years. China is more capitalistic than the USA. O'bama would not be where his is at if the US were a capitalistic society. Many, many Americans believe the government owes them a living, good health and a retirement.

Every political party has extremists. Labor has the communists, the Extreme Greens, and the Socialists, One Nation had a few White Supremacists, and the Libs have the fundamentalist Christians.

I would rather have the avarice of the 1,100 richest in the world influencing world economic events than an 'elected' politburo that can not be voted out and who crave political power with same zeal as Imelda Marcos eyeing off a new pair of shoes.

Freedom is about fewer laws, lower taxes, fewer public servants, the right to protect your own life and property and the right to become a highly educated, narrow-minded, ideologue with an enormous chip on ones shoulder if for some unfathomable reason it makes said person happy.

Socialism and the massive government required to prop it up is anti freedom.

History tends to avoid some of the unfortunate facts surrounding Madison and many of the "founding fathers" of American government.
What they wanted was a pure Republic and not a Democracy. Sort of what they had under the British but without Royalty.

They believed that Government was too important to be entrusted to appointment by the masses and wanted it to be comprised of - and directly appointed by - members of the wealthy elite and influential in society.

A couple of hundred years later and it seems that they are finally getting their wish.

Where they failed was that they also wanted the Constitution to be updated every generation because "the man should not be made to wear the clothes of the child".

I think it was also Madison who said that their new Government will serve them well - but only for a while - because like everything man creates, it will become corrupted and cease to be effective and must also be updated as conditions change.

Brace yourselves for the New World Order, coming soon to a Government near you.

it-was-asserted that-legitimacy-of-the-Constitution-derived-from-the act-of-ratification.

please note that the 'WEST' demon-autcraz-y has only subverted sovereign-authority-by-weight-of-numbers and-by-owning-policing-and the courts after-killing-off-the-indigenants-,and-bringing-in -ever-more-NEW-austr-alians
[to wit in-australia ,by killing the 25 million-AB-origonal's down to 400,000 ,then forcing might-is-right upon them via jails and a 'just us system'
[while dumbing-them-AND-us-down,via-a-failing-re-education-system and holding them-in-the-deserts-and-us-in-suburban-seclusion-in isolation-in-suburbia, after killing off their leaders]
SOVEREIGNITY-WAS-NEVER-CEEDED
AND_THE_REST_OF_US_WERE_CONNED,by-a-teo-party-farce-[both-run-by-beuroc-rats]

Adoption-of-the-Constitution-required-ratification-by-the-requisite nine-of-13-states.[or-the-implied-uninformed-concent-of-a-afew-thousand-people-near-a-100-years-ago]

via usa inc invader constitutional requirments
but even by our federal constitution-no-108'

[''EVERY_LAW_THAT_IS_IN_FORCE-in-a-coleny-that-becomes-a-STATE
relating-to-any-matter-within-the-powers-of-the-parliment-....
SHALL-subject-to-this-constitution-,continue-in-force-in-the-state''

[ie sovereign ab-origonal law [that preceeded this con-stitution, can in no way be subverted or nulified, by the act of this colenisation-con-situation
THE constitution can only apply to those under the constitutional boundry[or by] under any act of the constitutional powers
This point needs to be stressed.con-isnt-law-nor-legal-but-maritime-juris-stiction--might-makes-right-[for-its-own]

Authority for the USA Constitution derives from no sovereign or transcendental power but by “we-the-people” who alone gave their ratification.
[but not from the-sovereign [invaded]people who's right cannot be subverted , only surrendered in ignorance]

under-the-constitution-are-laws-affecting only-those-belonging[or claiming to belong] to australia-incorperated under-the-powers-of-the-constitutions
[those having [or using federal or state birth registration , become serfs thus fall under the courts maritime powers by applying for birth /or licencing-regestration that allows the elites to rule over the australian-civilians ,

thinking the constitution empowers-them [it-dosnt it-ensures-we are allequally-powerless [WE-have-to-vote ,WE-have-to-regester [cars-people-land-contracts-buisnesses-taxfiles-etc , WE_have-to-pay rates-tax-even-water-THE-Right to-pay through the nose etc-to-pay-for-those-working-FOR_us?

[WE-have-to or face the-weight-of-the-law court-orded-fines-adminestered-by-an-inbred-beurocratic-beurocracy, that-adminesters-these-things-NOTING-their-pensions-are-in-a-60-billion-trust-fund-safely-paid-up-front-by-howard-and-co ,raised-from-selling-your-telecom/telstra,for who-s-bennefit?]

THERE IS NO doctrine of the separation of powers; [lawyers become judges [or polititions making-ever-more-laws-acts , trusts , colluded deals for-their mates]

it included an Executive, a Legislature with two houses, each to check the other and a Judiciary separate from the other branches of government.
[but none of them legitimatly holding title to the land or its resources]

The inclusion of the judiciary was a distinctive contribution by the USA framers to the wholesale slaughter of indigenants and strealing their assets [by slave labour] ie the working wage [1/60th what it was in the twenties]look at the gross bonus paid to the bankers stealing it all with paper money

[read your own con115;A_STATE_SHALL_NOT_COIN_money-NOR-make ANYTHING-but-gold-or-silver_A_LEGAL_tender-in payment-of-debt
ie not any debt
nor even the stolen wages

Interesting article, I really enjoyed reading it. I'm also enjoying the way how different posters see history. That's why history is one of the most fascinating subjects.

And isn't it predictable how those who loudest proclaim the superiority of the 'democratic West' are most dismayed about differences of opinion?

Try and separate the concept of democracy from political philosophical ideas. Right wing conservative does not equal democracy. That's the thing with allowing the plebs to vote, you just might not get the outcome you like. Some of the unwashed masses just might not know what is good for them.

PS

Democracy is dead.

Just for the record.

Paul.L and Cowboy Joe

First, Paul.L, I hate to admit it but your piece made me laugh, and not at you but with you (apart from the occasional lapses into attacks ad hominem.)

Cowboy Joe suggest we lefties go to Cuba. Of course US imperialism's blockade of a small island has destroyed its economy. But an even more important point is that Cuba is not and never has been socialist. The working class as a class played no role in the overthrow of Batista. Wage relations continue. Castro's "I am a Marxist-Leninist" speech occurred 2 years after his petit bourgeois conquest of power when it was clear the US was not sympathetic and he had to turn to the Stalinist USSR for support.

The mistake Cowboy Joe and Paul.L make is to equate Stalinism with Stalinism and to berate those of us who view this state capitalist monstrosity as the antithesis of socialism. Socialism is the democratic rule of the working class to ensure production occurs to satisfy human need, not to make a profit. Stalinism is capitalism.

The rise of Stalin was the defeat of the revolution.

I know this is a dialogue of the deaf (and maybe I am very hard of hearing too) but it does help if people leave aside stereotypes and think independently and critically for a change.

And Paul.L I would like you to address my historical analysis (something Ellen might do too) that, basically, freedom and democracy are a consequence of the struggle of workers and others (ie from below), often against the wishes of the dictatorship of capital.

One of the downsides of raw democracy used to be that if you were
affiliated with a group that was less fecund, the more fecund other(s)could change the law to take away your chattels, or stop you from chatting at all.

To mitigate against this liberal societies enshrined inalienable -individual rights.

Three centuries ago the trend was for power to move from the few to the many but now it has reversed. The rights of few now often override the rights of the many. We now have the rights of terrorists to a good nights sleep, to personal space , to a seat. And the right of lawyers to grandstand. And some (minority) groups now have -special rights- like the right to special reseves, or right to reserved seats in parliament.

For all of that …it could be worse.
Imagine –a democratic UN (without veto powers). Where the national representatives have had ( benefit of) the same history professor as Johncee1945 or Passy, and see colonialism-imperialism as a peculiar Western contagion (despite all evidence that everybody, at one time or other, was involved) and were hell-bent on seeking ‘just’ recompense. Now that would be tyranny of the majority.

V ictoy for justice & democracy –only if you have a myopia

Don't know whether you are an academic, Passy, but you've sure got the insight to see that Western capitalistic democracy has never really been built on fair play.

Even Adam Smith, father of Laizess faire gave mention, when he warned that because capitalist competition is based on the need for human greed to take its course, we do need the historical Avant Guarde to be ever prudent.

Regards - BB, WA.

A superb overview of the development of Western democracy.

There are two points that may be worth considering.

Communication, hence the development of ideas, was extremely slow in the past, not only between different parts of the Globe, but also among people speaking the same language. The media, as we know it, did not exist.

Similarly, travel was slow. Even the privileged elite took weeks, and even years, to reach other parts of their known world.

Another point we ought to remember is that the nascent radio and film industry (as well as the papers) came under strict state control during the Nazi government in Germany, and during the communist rule in what was the USSR. (With disastrous consequencies.)

Now we appear to have swung the other way. With notable exceptions, the written media is replete with sensationalism, - described as the "gutter press" in the UK. Television (again with notable exceptions)is packed with banalities.

It could be that it is through the new media - the internet - where quality ideas, such as Ellen Goodman's, will predominate.

Horus,

"Three centuries ago the trend was for power to move from the few to the many but now it has reversed."

Power has never been in the hands of the many, absolutely. In the US, it is an Electoral College, whom elects their president. In modern history, individualist democracy came the thoughts of eighteenth thinkers.

I think a Bill of Rights is important because it holds both parliament and judicial parties to a standard to protect the People.
Herein, the People mediate. Military and convert forces are also necessary, to protect us, because we do live a dangerous world, as history clearly indicates.

When someone talk about the West culture or democracy, he should not foget the important parts such as the dark of Medieval Ages, genocide in colonization and two World War etc.

Even the current Iraq War can be treated as a example of pro democracy, that's why USA, founder of international Human Right Organization, lost its membership by democratic election in UN.

The greedy characteristic of the West, decides what West least considered at the international level is democracy.

It would be much easier to assess views such as the one expressed by Centra if they were ever levelled at other countries.

Review of its Mission, Operations, and Structure
Jeane J. Kirkpatrick (1926-2006)
TESTIMONY
Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights
Publication: June 6, 2001

As almost everyone now knows, the United States, which had been a founding member of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights from its founding in 1947, was not re-elected to the Commission and so will not be eligible to participate in its activities for the coming year.

But virtually all the dictatorships in the world will be participating in the Human Rights Commission next year doing the sort of things that dictatorships do – repressing others, jailing them, denying them free speech, press and assembly and trying to bar from taking part in Commission activities those NGOs which are most active in promoting free speech, press and assembly, personal security and rule of law. Charges have been brought against Freedom House, whose annual survey of freedom in the world is greatly resented by China among other tyrannies who with support of Cuba and Sudan brought the charges against Freedom House and the Christian Solidarity International, a U.S. Protestant group.

An accrediting committee of 19 "like-minded" will consider the charges against Freedom House. They will seek to revise the rules on accreditation to the Commission making it IMPOSSIBLE for victims of repression to speak to the Human Rights Commission and to circulate "politically motivated material" describing their treatment.

In the Human Rights Commission today, accredited NGOs can invite persons of their choosing, including victims of human rights’ abuse, to speak at the forums, a right granted by the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC). China would like to put an end to these procedures.

China has insisted their "national sovereignty" be respected. "They must neither abuse their consultative stakes, nor act against the principles and purposes of the U.N. Charter."

China has also tried to have the United Nations and the canton of Geneva ban demonstrations by the Falun Gong outside the U.N. Headquarters.

centra,

Please name a country/state which is not a Western style-democracy in which there are similar checks and balances on power and in which there is a truly independent court which would protect your rights against state action.