Careful mil-observer you are misrepresenting my position. I am (from the position of being able to use multiple languages, two of them Asian) suggesting that IF (1) we are going to teach Asian languages at all then there needs to be far greater time devoted to them. This is not 'dumbing down' in any way because those who use these languages as their mother tongue also require greater time to learn to read and write them. (2) One of the reasons we fail to effectively teach languages is because there are very few opportunities for learners to use them outside the classroom. We can put in all the classroom resources we like but there have to be outside opportunities, some reason to learn the language. In this a largely monolingual, English speaking country which is geographically isolated is at a great disadvantage. (3) It makes sense to use local resources such as migrants who are native speakers of other languages but we largely fail to do this. (4) The notion that we need to learn Mandarin (something by no means all Chinese speak)or Japanese simply because they are Asian languages and trading partners is to exclude languages like Thai, Cambodian, Pilipino etc. We do also do business in other areas of the Pacific but I do not hear a call for anyone to teach Samoan or Pidgin or the French of French Polynesia.
There is a bias here towards two languages because they are somehow seen as the 'right' languages to learn at the exclusion of everything else. For that reason far better to have all children learn something of an Indo-European language in the limited time devoted to second language learning and take those who look as if they might have the aptitude and interest and offer them scholarships for intensive study here and abroad.
It's an approach which makes sense to me - and many others.

Mil-observer.

Ponder the operation of that mil (sic) and you’ll come to the conclusion it was designed by some anonymous mathematician or engineer… who doubtless had some knowledge of the mathematics of the Ancients. If you dared go forward and follow the footsteps in advances of thought and Western science you’d see why such quaint antiquities as mills are now redundant. With a modicum of enquiry you’d discover, while the first principles are still employed, how our developing technology has allowed for greater efficiency and elegance. Thanks to great Western thinkers, mostly mathematicians, engineers and some forward focused scientists we’ve overseen the development of the practises of the mathematics and sciences of the Ancients. Thus developed communications, electricity generation and machinery of a nature and calibre unheard of in older civilisations of other baser barbaric hemispheres.

We long ago left the desire for ritual suicide and a low value of human life where they belonged … in less educated, less thoughtful and more introverted times… and such is the way with Western growth and development.

Alas my lesson might be too deep for those who think our history and language doesn’t influence the spectacular place we sit in the world and for those who concentrate on past inglorious episodes rather than accept and adopt the growth and renewal that is inherent to our culture.

I don’t know much Latin. I did learn srpskohrvatski some years ago when I had an association with a Jugoslaviji government company. It has both Latin and Cyrillic alphabets. I’ve never completed a university degree. I’ve read widely. But the opinion I’ve developed over the last twenty years or so is not something anyone with a modicum of decency or intelligence would dare sneer at.

Like to sit with me for a day or two and compare reading lists … and intellect?

Do you know of Michael Faraday? An Englishman.
Do you know of Jean Fourier? A Frenchman.
Do you know of Arthur Edwin Kennelly? An American.
Do you know of their significance to today’s world
See if you can find answers without reference to Wikipedia

Without the intellect and communicative abilities of these Westerners we wouldn’t be communicating in the current media. Those abilities were anchored in the practises of the Greeks and the languages of Latin and Greek

At this juncture note much of the Ancient Greek knowledge came from parts further east notably the Persians and Arab Empire. I suspect you’d altogether miss the point I’m making.

So I’ll spell it out in simple terms.

Those empires have been overtaken, as have their ability to generate innovative intellectual thought and develop new technologies, by the West.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why? Leave the observation of that mill for a little and broaden your mind ... somewhat.

Here I’ll debunk any future claim you likely will make about the current Asian Empires. They mimic and miniaturise western creativity.

And one final point. The greatest strength of western civilisation and culture has been and is it’s ability to adapt the ideas and philosophies of the cultures it meets in the world. That has been it’s mode for generations. But along with that ability has been the underlying belief in it’s own strengths and abilities. If we lose that then the west will decay. While our universities train and produce engineers, mathematicians, scientists, classically trained historians, philosophers and medico’s and while some of us still ponder the classics we won’t lose that self-belief. So take heart and don’t sink into the despair you are displaying…all will be well.

Baygon. You should attend Tibet, Saudi Arabia or Tiananmen Square for pointless parties in languages and behaviours no-one can understand.

God the Olympics are Greek in origin. I bet there are a few philosophers from that age spinning in their graves in disgust at the present circus surrounding that event. Where are the other great civilisations equivalence … the more sports minded of us might dare to ask?

The English language and Western methods … such simplicity … Why do you find it so easy to criticise those things that have given you the chance at the very comfortable and interesting life you should be leading?

Communicat: Yes, my labelling of your position was provocative and now appears premature, but what I identified was your (then) position's very obvious potential to give succour to our country's complacent non-linguists.

You make very important points for practical consideration. Native-speaker teachers is part of a general problem: not enough teachers, and too many of minimal ability. But you risk misrepresenting advocates (including Rudd) when you cite “the big two” i.e., Mandarin and Japanese. In fact, the 1994 Rudd Report identified a “big four” as Mandarin, Indonesian, Japanese and Korean. I share your concern there and want to check their justification for that narrowing-down – probably done via some econorat reductionism citing trade and growth figures, but that would be compatible with a more avowedly “strategic” and practical focus. Also, “Philippino” doesn't really exist: a few of my friends speak Cebuano and Tagalog, with passive skill in other Philippines regional languages.

But I believe the matter of exposure/contact time can mislead given Australia's pre-existing small commitment to language teaching. There has for so long been a need for much more language-training investment to effect the strategically seismic cultural change critical for this country's future; such need is merely emphasized by the increasingly recognized challenges in tonal, non-Roman-character Asian languages.

keith: Your differences with me seem more religious in nature, so I'll bypass your hallowed ground of Thermopylae where you can wave the sword at someone keener to engage on those grand points about “western civilization” and which towering white guys have the bigger obelisks of creative genius, intellect, etc.

Separately, though, you're using English here so you really meant “Serbo-Croatian” and “Yugoslavian”. Beware: some linguists deduce fakery from poseurs' awkward use of foreign vocabulary (“bahasa” is a classic. Literally meaning “language”, some drop the word to mean, and imply that they speak, Indonesian). Also, Serbian and Croatian friends taught me enough of their respective tongues to inform that they are separate languages (notwithstanding some well-intentioned Yugoslav efforts at overcoming those differences). Are their respective alphabets not Cyrillic (Serbian) and Roman (Croatian)?

A few months ago I posted an article about languages (under my name rather than this nom de guerre i.e. John Töns) The more recent comments on this topic highlight the problems that we face - public indifference, lack of resources and the disagreements about which languages to teach.
A useful starting point to counter public indifference and in the process address the other two over a longer timeframe is to use our existing languages as a starting point.
Currently there are about 100 languages used in Australia (this includes Aboriginal languages.) If our starting point was merely to provide support for these bilingual children so that they develop their cognitive skills in both English and at least one other language then we will also build up our reservoir of competent second language teachers. As far as which language is concerned it is high time that those with a commitment to languages stopped trying to find socio-economic reasons for learning languages - why should languages be treated any differently to other curriculum areas? Should we only teach art, music, physical education, history, geography etc if and only if we can make a commercial case for these subjects? Surely all those curriculum areas merit support for their intrinsic worth regardless of any economic outcomes.

So Mil-Observer

You entered the arena joining the chorus of the mob. You valiantly challenged and provoked a champion of the Thespians, the adorers of Eros. Ahhh so much more seemly than your crude analogies, don't you think?.

You presented armed to the teeth with high minded criticism and derision.

And when challenged, silence befell the crowd, it turns out your armaments were of papier-mâché. In disgrace you've slunk away in a cowering bravado giving a final empty and meaningless gesture, a sort of proverbial, a poorly supported thinly cultured finger.

If you want to engage one of Leonidas's like minded you'd better bring more than the Persians or ... Southern Balkins...
Want to try again? Do so but leave your paper Mache sword at home and please bring a substantial shield.

If you'd truely read and understood the first Historian, even in English, perhaps you'd have been a tad better armed.

I think you'd be better suited contesting a battle at Thermae.

By the way, I found the the Croations spoke hrvatskisrpsko and the Serbians srpskohrvatski in the times of Markovic and Milosevic. At that time unity was paramount even though really only a facade.

And finally, is you position so weak that you needed to raise the issue of race in a discussion of language and culture? Are you Europhobic?

Or as it just that you hate yourself?