Jadele “The struggle is to find the balance.”

No struggle. If you are sure to what is right and necessary and in the best interests of your children.

As US wrote “We should leave it up to individual parents to decide, as they know their own values and they know their own children.”

Some would suggest being Roman Catholic is good but I am not RC and so my children have not been brought up RC but I do not think they suffer for that.

Jolanda said “I see a problem with children maturing earlier... Sexual abuse of children, physical abuse of children, neglect of children, bullying of children. . . ”

I would like to know why “children maturing earlier” is a contributory cause to their
Sexual abuse
Physical abuse
Neglect or
Bullying

Whilst the above are problems, they are nothing new and have been with us since the dawn of time, I can see no relationship between them and rates of maturity.

I likewise fail to see how the development of the victim in any way contributes to the actions of a predatory pedophile.

The actions of the aggressor are based on selfishness and a “depraved indifference” to the rights of the victim.
That would suggest the developmental maturity of the victim is irrelevant to that “indifference”.

“I would like to see more moderation. We are functioning too much at the extremes.”

Is that “moderation”, enforced with extremist (draconian censorship) legislation?

“Children are going to push the boundaries, they always will try to push the boundaries.”

I did too. When it was my turn as Dad, I held the line.

One of the roles of a parent is to set and enforce the boundaries needed for our children to push against. A failed parent (who lets the child’s push prevail) will produce selfish children. A parent who holds the line will, more likely, produce children who accept accountability for their actions and respect the rights of others when they leave, to face the world as adults.

( I seem to repeatedly agree with US posts : - )

Col Rouge
I am sure of what I believe to be good & right for my children. I also am sure of what I believe to be good for me. I believe there are good & appropriate behaviours, television viewing, dress standards for children and adults in front of children. It doesn't mean that the struggle to find a good balance is irradicated. You seem to be assuming the answers are black & white. Life is complicated, complex and often full of surprises.

I don't believe that children maturing earlier contribute to acts of sexual abuse etc, but I do believe that the ways they are being taught & modelled to dress (or are even dressed because "it's cute"), put on make up, behave all contribute to the sexualisation of children & the abuse of children. Again, we all have different opinions on what is 'appropriate' and what is not.

Col Rouge - I like your last para.....
"One of the roles of a parent is to set and enforce the boundaries needed for our children to push against. A failed parent (who lets the child’s push prevail) will produce selfish children. A parent who holds the line will, more likely, produce children who accept accountability for their actions and respect the rights of others when they leave, to face the world as adults." Both a mother & father is needed in a child's life - and that means an active mother & father who are good role models and personally input into their lives. Absent fathers (for whatever reason - work, disinterest in children, other commitments, divorce) have severe repercussions on the emotional well being of children. Children who have been abused & the parents have not listened or pretended it hasn't happend are in essence 'abandoned' & betrayed by their parents - those children generally go on to be perpetrators themselves.

continued next post......

We need to protect children - teaching them good responsible behaviours, ways to dress & act, so they do not find themselves in positions where they are more suseptable to things such as 'date rapes' and being looked at or touched in sexual ways because of inappropriate dress etc, especially when in situations where you wouldn't think twice about anything happening. Really this type of thing is just "fueling the fire" - it's like putting a glass of wine in an alcoholic's hand. Parents have a responsibility to protect their children. We all don't have the same ideas of what this means, and unfortunately we see the results of this.

We live in a depraved fallen world. Bad things happen & unfortunately we are never going to be able to 'fix' it. However, we can do as much as we can to prevent such terrible atrosities. In just about any case I can think of prevention is so so so much better than dealing with the aftermath of sexual, physical, emotional or psychological abuse.

I'd be interested to know if any of our posters have been the victims of any sort of abuse or have known people in any abusive situations. I'm not asking you to reveal anything or break any confidences but I'm sure if anyone could have prevented anything from happening it would be much better than having to deal with the pain from any such event.

I also want to mention at this point - the victim is always the victim!

Hi Jadele. I wholly agree with your view is children need both parents and we are their role models. I have daughters and think a father is essential to their upbringing (just as a mother is essential for boys) and both parents the best option for either. Despite my separation and divorce when the girls were a lot younger, I bought a house between the old matrimonial home and the girls school and regardless of the limits of the “weekend schedule”, saw them most days.

My girls have flown the nest and successfully set up one by herself and one with her long term partner who she is about to marry. Both are responsible, caring, respectful of others and possess many other good qualities which fill me with pride.

“We live in a depraved fallen world. Bad things happen & unfortunately we are never going to be able to 'fix' it.”

The world does not care, it has no emotional attachment to anyone. It is a dangerous and difficult place but I do not believe a “depraved fallen” place. It is just indifferent. And you are right, no one will ever “fix” it. All we can do is instill a sense of caution in our kids and at least a sense of respect for others.

“Abuse” was never a part of my experience, either as a child or adult. i do know, however, It messes kids up, totally destroys their faith and self worth and can lead to a lot of adult problems, not least perpetuating the abuse. The only solution would be to disqualify some folk from having kids but the consequences of such a policy would produce more problems than it would solve. I am at a loss for any solution, certainly “government” doing anything has never and will never work.

Once again, must add a little sympathy, in contrast to others, since I beleive that what Tankard Reist and some of the conservative contributors are talking about here is something akin to what lefties and feminists would refer to or describe as "reification" or "commodification". That is, the social or cultural conditioning; brainwashing if you like, by a society of its members, to operate subordinate to pol economic or sexual economy requesites, the examination of which is kept by the lunatics running the asylum outside of scrutiny from the rest of us.
Some employ the term "inscription", to describe this Stepford Wives or Orwellian type of erosion of this notion of the autonomy of the supposed free standing or self sufficient conscious individual. It originates with Freud's critique of psychic structure and operation that includes the unconscious, and elements of "soft" Euroleft thought.
Whilst Freud's examples, involving female hysteria in particular, have been superceded, the underlying concept of an immanent and decodable psychic base and superstructure (if you like) itself remains a valid notion for commencement of social investigation.
And looking around at the behaviours and pathologies ongoingly evident anywhere in this crazy world, I, too, worry about the "processing" of individuals and the consequences apparent thereof.