Surely lots of laws and mores against something indicate that there must be an awful lot of IT going on. The idea that modesty, chastity and virtue will result from covering up the wimmin is junk thinking. It indicates the opposite.

Let's solve lust by wrapping it in linen and labelling it freedom. Works for the useful idiots I guess.

Oh I am soooooooo grateful to be a woman living in a christian nation.

Why, I hear you ask? Because at least I don’t have to cover myself neck to knee, or wear a scarf unless I CHOOSE to.

Gee, ain’t Christianity grand?

Do women have equal status to men according to the Holy Bible?

No we don't; in fact, we women, have exactly the same value according to both Quran and Bible. That is, we are worth exactly half that of a man - any man, even the really dumb ones.

So while Christianity could be seen as the lesser of two evils: I choose neither. Both religions suck, both have been used for violence and both place men as more important than women.

The following post is an extract from:

http://littlurl.com/gy4d1

Cont'd...

Women’s Status: Bible vs. the Quran

Don't you love it when the Bible and the Quran agree (more or less) on something?

They go at it from slightly different angles, but come up with the same answer. A woman is worth about half as much as a man.

BIBLE:

And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver.... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.

And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.

And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels. Leviticus 27:3-7

So, depending on their age, females are worth 1/2 to 2/3 as much as males.

QURAN

Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. Quran 4:11

... unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females. Quran 4:176
And the Quran tells us just how much we should trust a woman's testimony: it's worth half that of a man's.

And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women. Quran 2:282

The Bible and the Quran agree: a woman is worth half as much as a man.

Themistocles, Interesting. Certainly, I get the impression that some point is being made. Perhaps, as you suggest, it’s about superiority – moral, spiritual, being on God’s side, compared with the godless West. Although pride might be part of the mix, I still find it unimpressive that the women have to do this work, and take the heat for it – you know, the dark looks etc.

Steel, Do you really think the comparison is reasonable? Assuming you’re right that the Western oppression you speak of is Christian-based, it will be derived from some idea of modesty – some distinction between what is private and what is public. Do you think there should be no such distinction? Do you think modesty – in dress, conduct, whatever – is of no significance at all?

The difference is in the degree of “precautions” a woman must take, and in the consequences of her failure. I can’t imagine hunting down under-dressed women in a tray truck and beating them with baseball bats. But, all Islam knows is crime and punishment. There is no mercy. Remember, it’s very primitive.

I also think men are responsible for governing themselves, and should not be permitted to abdicate. The hijab and burqa encourage this abdication.

If you really think Western/Christian censorship of clothing is as oppressive as its Muslim counterpart, are you saying you’d just as soon live in a Muslim theocracy as in Australia? If not, then I suggest that Christianity has either fostered, or at least not effectively opposed, a lot of freedoms that Islam will eradicate if given half a chance.

Fractelle, Posts like yours actually make me wonder if atheists (which I infer you to be) are capable off adding value to a comparative religion discussion. Is it because your hatred of all religions, because of the God delusion sitting behind them all, trumps all other considerations? Anyway, you seem to struggle in appreciating even quite significant differences. If you were free to live in any country/culture of your choosing, which would it be – West, East, Middle-East, Africa ….?

Great post, katieO.

Pax,

Father killed dauhter in Canadian hijab[Islamic headscarf] case
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN1151774720071211

Fractelle

The Old Testament Bible and Quúran probably do say the same things about women and their value but most Christian based societies have moved on in the intervening centuries and no longer insist that women abide by primitive subordination rules (which, when first developed may have had good protective reasons - societies were much more primitive, blood feuds were all the go and women were fair game for any man who could get them, especially in unsettled times).

But most Christian based societies no longer live in primitive, blood feud societies and, with much struggle, have developed (often with much kicking and screaming) and are in the process of developing behaviours which eliminate subordination behaviours and mores.

The renascent radical Islam has not moved in this regard from behaviours prevalent in Mahommed's time, in times of really primitive and, with respect, savage behaviour (attacking and slaughtering your enemy was not unusual - just look at Mahommed's struggle for dominance and the savagery that he used at the various atages of that struggle).

I am not comdemning all Muslims - all I am saying is that a comparison of the valuation of women given in the Old Testament (a rule book of a desert tribal community and which is over 2000 years old) and that given in the Quuran (a rule book of a desert tribal community which is over 1200 years old) is not really relevant to the discussion as to whether the wearing of the hejab is a political act, a political act which loudly and clearly asserts the subordination of women.

The argument about women in the West having something similar imposed on them by having to cover up their breasts (not yours Fractelle) is also a bit shallow. Sure, there have been times when that happened but if you really want to test whether it is a valid comparison in the context of tis discussion just compare community attitudes and actions re women's swimming costumes and Islam's attitudes to women wearing the Hijab in the 1920s and in the 2000s. There is just no valid comparison.