All veils in Muslim culture cover the “sexual abandon” and profligacy that womanhood embodies, and the temptation to man can only be stifled by not being able, at least temporarily, to see it. But in our modern times with the exodus of many Muslims from their own countries into the sexually promiscuous West the headscarf has a second life with a new meaning. It has become a sexually pure SUBLIMATED projection for Muslim women for their real oppression. In contrast to the apparently promiscuous women of the West, Muslim women can feel PROUD of their sexual “purity” and display it by wearing the hijab. Thus, being slaves in their own households they feel to be “queens” in the domain of the Western world.

This is Shakiras Hussein’s irresolvable problem. But its solution is very simple: Cast away this false sublimation by throwing out the hijab and be a free woman.

http://civcontraislam.typepad.com

In response to Paul L.'s post specifically but to all who posted in support of his post or the article afterward, if you had read the wikipedia article you would know that many women in the west are indeed oppressed by being forced to wear a covering on their upper body.

Whether you agree with this or not in our society women are punished with fines and imprisonment if they do not comply. The reason? Same as Islam. It's "offensive" to men and other women in the west. It's "debasing".

Sure you can link it to some Islam but I can also link similar practices such as I've described with the spread of Christianity. A Christian drive, the same rhetoric the same goal. An example has been posted on this forum while this discussion has taken place... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1701

"A male christian friend of mine also says he has trouble in shopping centres with all of the boosums hanging out and with dresses half way up the backside."

Replace christian with muslim and you will hear an unnerving resemblance between the two religious voices (islam and christianity) that everyone is so 'outraged' about. Outrage that is not very consistent, nor logical. It's easy to miss all this when your attention is being directed at judging others (in different sovereign states) and you are assimilated into your own culture.

Shakira Hussein describes herself as being a “Muslim Secular Feminist”. I am learning to expect such obfuscation from the MSF.

Hijab is not headwear. Take a good look: hijab-wearing ladies are covered head-to-toe. See Communicat’s post about associated health-problems. Clearly, this is not the same jaunty little Hermes scarf that Lizzie wears with flair (while riding or shooting).

PaulL: No argument from me!

I’ve written on this topic before in this forum. Muslim women WANT to wear hijab. Want, want, want!! But more importantly, they NEED to wear hijab. All the comments about uncovered meat, preached to Muslims young and old, as written in the Qu’ran. We should be asking why the little girls need to wear hijab too.

Ms Hussein may have taken some liberties with the “being oppressed” claim, however, Muslim women living in Muslim-majority countries are very realistic about what happens to women who walk around in a “provocative” state of undress.

Marilyn Shepherd: There is a big difference between women adopting a uniform for the sake of modesty, to deny their sexuality, and therefore to devote themselves to a religious life, and the above.

Patricia WA: <demonized by writers like this…>

The author is very clear that he is questioning a vague, unsubstantiated claim by a writer who should know better, a Muslim writer.

<it brings a grace to dress>

I’m not critical of your fashion choices. I truly believe you should wear whatever you please, within the bounds of decency, which granted, varies from person-to-person. Let’s say within the acceptable limits as imposed by law. I value freedom of choice. The young Saudi girls I saw in Jigsaw recently were dressed in hijab: of the figure-hugging jersey fabric variety. Young muslim women have found a way around the hijab, and it is not “grace”.

Themistocles: elegantly argued. Shakira, take note: this is what a true MSF should be advocating!

Steel: too much here for one post. The sexualisation of girls in the West IS a real issue, from any point of view.

Kees Bakhuyzen: I look forward to hearing more from you.

KatieO said: "Hijab is not headwear. Take a good look: hijab-wearing ladies are covered head-to-toe. See Communicat’s post about associated health-problems. Clearly, this is not the same jaunty little Hermes scarf that Lizzie wears with flair (while riding or shooting)."

Hi Katie.. are you thinking of the burqa as the head-to-toe jobbie? I looked this up out of curiosity, the term hijab seems to be loosely used to refer to a head scarf but apparently its true meaning is more about an Islamic philosophy of modesty of dress, rather than a specific garment... the quote from Wiki says this:
"In some Arabic-speaking countries and Western countries, the word hijab primarily refers to women's head and body covering, but in Islamic scholarship, hijab is given the wider meaning of modesty, privacy, and morality. The word used in the Qur'an for a headscarf or veil is khim&#257;r)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab

Islam should be outlawed in liberal democracies to protect Muslim women from their male counterparts.

Recently in Canada, a Muslim man murdered her daughter because she refused to put on a hijab, the Islamic headscarf. According to Islamic jurisprudence her father acted correctly and legally but was charged with murder in the eyes of Canadian law. The father is a responsible and hardworking man any employer would be proud of, but he is also a devout Muslim and has to ‘honour’ his ideology.

If a man can kill his daughter in the name of Islam, he would stop at nothing to getting rid of non-Muslims if he can’t get his way with his ideology.

“What the westerners do not understand is that Muslims have different values, which are diametrically in contrast with western values”, says Ali Sina an ex-Muslim.

http://www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/Ban-Hijab-for-Aqsa-Parvez.htm
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN

Perhaps we need to look at the actual symbolic value attached to the Islamic hijab, and compare this with other head covering faith positions ?

ISLAM

"HIJAB"

1/ Symbolizes 'Islam' (and all that goes with it)
2/ In the Islamic context it symbolizes every Quranic and Hadith reference to wearing one. The reasons and alleged benefits.
The relative position of Males and females in Islam is outlined in surah 4:34

<<Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means.>>

It's a pity that the above verse ends with "if you fear disloyalty.. do this,...this,... then beat them"

...which is taken from the specific Surah about 'Women'.

CHRISTIAN. (cross/haircovering)(including the E.B.'S)The New Testament is not ambiguous in declaring that women should wear some kind of hair covering in meetings.(not 'head' covering) this also symbolizes the values expressed within the Faith.

The values do sound similar at first glance to Islam "Wives respect/obey your husbands" etc..but it ends quite differently "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her" There is no reference whatsoever to 'beating' or discipline of any kind, which would imply a physical dominance, rather than a selfless giving as the Bible clearly indicates.

NUNS/CATHOLICISM. I guess in this case they reflect not only the New Testament idea, but also the Catholic History and accumulated traditions.

CONCLUSION. I don't see much to be gained by trying to count how many hijabs can fit onto a feelings_pinhead.. or how individual Muslims 'feel' about wearing it, or how they view western women.
If we are talking about the "Hijab" lets limit it to the symbolic value and significance.
The author makes a moral judgement on it, 'no innocent piece of clothing'..I presume he is thinking here more of the historical expression of Islam. In which case we can talk Cross,'Hijab' 'Headscalf' 'Swastika' etc.