Danielle and PaulL, you both seem inflicted with the same historical forgetfulness or - thoughtlessness.

I had already stated that Israel had in the early stages gone into nuclear rocketry illegally.

Otherwise it seems you both truly believe that time can actually heal crimes of the past, such as the manufacturing plus possession of illegal weaponry?

Was not the above what Mordecai’s so-called crime was all about, an honest opinion that his fellow Israelies had truly broken a law vouchased by the World Court as well as the United Nations?

As a political historian would certainly also like the above cleared up.

Regards – BB, WA

Lev,

I have already provided evidence of land purchased by Jews - and at exhorbitant prices. Indeed all land sale and movement was meticulously documented. You should find copies of the Reports in your university library, certainly on film. Jews effectively bought the land of Israel, which incidentally was hardly a bargain. Israel's land has a fertility of 17% compared with that in the Palestinian territory of 27%.

You underestimate the importance of the Faisal-Weizmann agreement. Faisal was not only King of Syria but also later of Iraq. As Keeper of the Holy Places he was of significant importance to the Arab peoples. The agreement was both recognised and had great support. Surely you don't approve of colonial deviance in sinking this agreement; or is it as commonly expressed, "treaties are made to be broken"?

Also, few Arabs lived in the Palestinian area. King Faisal, himself, despaired of the lack of Arabs living there; one of his letters stated that with the Jewish presence and the opportunities this presented, that Palestinians would return to their place of birth.
Britain had to bring in many, many 1,000s of Arabs from from elsewhere. Reports of the time described the territory as a wasteland.

Regarding Israel's Supreme Court and religious matters, you again, obviously did not read the issue of the Sabbath. Also, Israel's Supreme Court has over-ruled the Knesset on a many issues

"A common first language is the best definition of a nationality"

For someone who purportedly studied linguistics, let alone socio-linguistics, this is an extraordinary statement to make. Even for those without such a background would find this fatally flawed. However, are you aware that both Hebrew and Arabic are Israel's official state languages.

Re: Timor-Leste - you didn't access Asia Report N°143 of 17 January 2008, did you?

"I'd probably write a lot more on those states except there seems to be very few people who seem prepared to debate the issue!"

Absolutely correct, Lev. Unfortunately, anti-semitism in the classic meaning of the term is alive and well.

Bushbred,

PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF ISRAEL'S NUCLEAR CAPABILITY.

Sorry to have been lurking on this discussion for so long without contributing. However I am a bit suspicious now. Danielle, are you really claiming that Israel does not have nuclear weapons?

This is a pretty well established fact, even the Prime Minister has mentioned it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/12/uisrael112.xml

This kind of denial does the rest of your arguments no credit.

Danielle,

The fact that Jews purchased land in Palestine is well known, but irrelevant. People can buy land title wherever they want.

Perhaps you trying to distract from the the actions of paramilitary groups who, between November 1947 (when the United Nations partitioned Palestine), and May 1948 (when the State was formally proclaimed), had seized 75% of Palestine, and forced 780,000 Palestinians out of the country?

Until 1947, Jewish land ownership in Palestine was some 6%. By the time the state was formally established, it had sequestered 90% of the land.

The fact that Faisal was King of Syria (in 1920) and also later King of Iraq (from 1921 to 1933) is also well known, but also irrelevant. He signed the document as King of Hejaz. That document has no legal standing and never did.

In 1922 there was over 750,000 inhabitants of Palestine. A figure which had declined from 790,000 in 1914, but increased to over 1,000,000 by 1931. But of course, this too is irrelevant.

To reiterate, the use of a common first language is the best definition of nationality for purposes of determining statehood from self determination. It is not the only definition of nationality, but it is the best and most precise for this purpose. The fact that Hebrew and Arabic are official languages in Israel is great, but again irrelevant to the fact that Israel is explicitly a Jewish and colonial state.

I read the "Timor-Leste: Security Sector Reform" report in both English and Tetum. It has nothing to do with your profoundly ignorant and grossly offensive claim that the pro-Indonesia militia wanted peace and it was only through this desire that the UN peacekeepers were effective.

Mickie K,

The faux agnosticism of Israel's nuclear capabilities has only convinced the most gullible and partisan (boolean 'and' in this case) that they were not in breach of international law on this matter. Olmert's slip confirms what heroic individuals like Vanunu have been saying for decades.

Bushbred,

I admitted to my suspicion that Israel had nuclear weapons. I’d be distinctly surprised if Israel didn’t. Why should Israel not ...? Other countries have them such as Britain and France ... it would appear that old enmities die hard.

One can only state that Israel's security, even conduct, of Dimona in the mid-80's rivalled the Keystone Cops.

Security measures are stringent in such facilities, access to different areas is granted only to those specific to those areas. How Mordechai Vanuna managed to sneak in a camera, let alone take photographs without security officers being aware beggars belief. From what I have been told, and I am not an expert, is that different components of nuclear weapons are kept separate until necessary. Nuclear bombs are not stacked up like bales of hay ... Also, the idea of bringing in nuclear scientists from the USA? What about Israel’s experts ...

Vanuna first showed his photographs to church group in Sydney apparently during a sing-a-long. What did he expect them to see? Even experts would not be able to identify for certainty a nuclear weapons unit from a photograph.

Vanuna would have been better to have presented copies of blueprints, flow-sheets, data and documentation of movement of materials ... Surely this material would be littering desks and in waste-paper baskets.

However, Vanuna was brave - unnecessarily so, but brave.

Dimona is reported to be an unregulated and aging nuclear installation, with Israel’s failure to monitor safety. One can only assume that if Dimona is a nuclear installation, then the Israelis have a very efficient plant/s secreted elsewhere. Perhaps Israel wants others to belive that Dimona is its nuclear installation. O'h, the deception ...!

Australia has weapons systems suitable to deliver nuclear weapons to its neighbours. Discussion has taken place about an enrichment plant, producing highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapons program; an Australian company is developing a unique process for uranium enrichment. Also, if necessary, I am sure that Australia would be sent lots of “brown paper packages tied up with string.”

Lev,

The very reasons that you give for Israel not being a real nation actually negate your contention that a single state is the correct solution.

You say >> “the use of a common first language is the best definition of nationality for purposes of determining statehood from self determination”

Well then how can you possibly see any legitimacy for a single state in Palestine, or for that matter any other state where more than one language is spoken. In any case Israel is already a nation.

You say “Religions, for example, can be chosen or left in a person's lifetime, but it is only the rarest of instances that one's first language changes. That is why the definition has changed; as time has gone on, it has become more precise.

Yet this ignores the fact that many people who have never been to temple consider themselves Jewish. Whether that is linguistically entirely accurate is irrelevant. To be Jewish is much more than just being a devout follower of Judaism.

Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion, those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion. Fowler, Jeaneane D. (1997).

In any case, without a doubt the League of Nations meant to create a national home for the Jewish people. The UN voted on this proposition and it was overwhelmingly accepted 33 to 13.

You say >> Until 1947, Jewish land ownership in Palestine was some 6%. By the time the state was formally established, it had sequestered 90% of the land.

I’d like to see the map showing Israeli control over 90% of the mandate of Palestine in 1949. If you would be so kind.