Billie,

Thank you for reiterating your solipsistic ideology and educational misconceptions. We will all soon have them memorised!

Billie, non-government schools at the high end (wealthy/elite/high fee - whatever term works for you) of the spectrum don't actually receive funding from state or federal governments for buildings and facilities, these things are paid for through school fees, donations, fundraising etc, i.e. by the parents, friends, school community with their own (after tax) dollars. Would you prefer to see them spend this money on new cars, holidays, mega-size TVs, booze etc, or put it towards the education of their children?

The federal government's guidelines for capital grant funding ensure that only schools in the lower half of the SES scale receive capital grant funding. In NSW, the high fee schools also don't receive any funding from the state government either - a similar situation in other states. The funds these schools have available for new buildings etc are the result of many generations of students, families, etc who then put money back into their old school for the benefit of future students. In theory, any public school community can also do this - although chances are they're prevented from doing so by their state government owners.

Your arguments are sometimes well reasoned but unfortunately too often you fall into the easy trap of emotive, unresearched hearsay. I much prefer your less emotive postings. :-)

Malcs

The emotional response to religions and to religion in general is precisely the point of this thread. Billie, CJ, Fractelle et al are expressing powerful (negative) feelings about religion. (Education just happens to be the immediate occasion for the expression of these emotions.)

For all the good things that the Churches do in our society, yet they have also done a great deal of harm and hurt many people individually.

The depth of negative feeling that exists towards today's churches needs to be heard, felt and dealt with. Government really has no role to play in this situation other than to maintain its "freedom of religion" and "anti-discrimination" stance in accordance with our constitution.

There are obviously many "faith-based" schools making wonderful contributions to education in this country and although they do not deserve to be the object of anti-religious feelings it is inevitable that they will be, given that they do represent their various churches in the community and do, within the constraints of BOS etc requirements, participate in the cultures of their respective churches.

Billie's "emotional" point is valid and needs to be heard. He is obviously angry with the Church and perhaps with religion in general. In the safe anonymity of this forum (s)he, with perhaps a little 'encouragement', might feel free to give full vent to these feelings and this is certainly not to be discouraged. When (s)he does I just hope the Church is listening.

Malcs, Geelong Grammar gets the highest SES funding because its calculated on students residential address. From what I have heard most parents feel that Geelong Grammar tries very hard to engage students, develop them as individuals and set them on a fulfilling professional or vocational career path.

The principle remains "no state aid for non-state schools".

I see that Irfan has written an entire piece about private (and faith-based) education whilst hardly mentioning Islam-based teaching, except to speak positively. No mention of the shortcomings of Islamic schools which have been exposed elsewhere, both institutional and educational. Quite a performance, really.

Billie, Geelong Grammar School has an SES ranking of 114. The lowest possible ranking (highest funded) is 85 and the highest ranking (lowest funded) is 130. This means GG receives $2,566 for every primary student and $3,277 for each secondary student, compared to the highest funding levels of $5,330 and $6,807 for the lowest SES ranked schools (2007 figures according to the DEST website). Geelong Grammar, therefore, is far from being 'highest funded' as you claim. If you're going to make such a claim please take the time to research the facts first.

BTW, that's YOUR principle of no government funding for non-government schools. It's not shared by governments and a large proportion of the population who clearly see the need for non-government schools to provide education services, just as they see the need for private hospitals to provide health services, and other private enterprises to provide a range of other 'public' services.

Waterboy, of course anyone can make any claim, emotional or not, that they wish. But if they make blatantly incorrect statements about things like funding that are a matter of fact, not of 'opinion', then this should be pointed out.