Actually Malcs my information about Exclusive Brethren comes from its teachers, observation of the sects women, listening to Rosemary Staunton reading the Sydney Morning Herald, Crikey and watching the ABC.

But Billie, my point is that if you spent any time in those schools and saw first-hand what they actually do, then you would see what DOES happen as opposed to what you are TOLD happens by second and third-hand sources. Most of those sources you've identified make their comments based on what they THINK happens, often based on other people's untested beliefs, guesses and assumptions from reading other reports, often from years ago.

As I said, these schools have come a long way in recent years and the proof is there in their educational results. Critics continue to make assertions and claims about these schools based on what that community's church does, not on what happens in the schools themselves. The schools have moved on so in fairness it's time their critics did likewise. By all means criticise the faith/church if you wish but learn to separate that from how the schools are now run - there is a big difference if you care to actually take a close look. That's surely not asking too much of otherwise intelligent people...

Billie

If you go to this website http://www.aeufederal.org.au/Debates/factsheet2.pdf (2004 figures)
a fact sheet from the AEU no less,
you will see that total government funding per capita for children in government schools in 2004 was $8361 compared to $5857 per child for children in independent schools. Clearly people sending their children to independent schools are saving you tax dollars because they are paying on average $4417 directly towards their childrens education.

As Malcs says, you really should avail yourself of the FACTS before speaking out on these matters.

If you are paying enough tax to cover your own children's education AND extra to contribute to others then you are obviously in the category of people who can afford to pay for their own children's education and perhaps should be made to do so. The people really ripping off this system are those who can afford to pay for their children's education but send them to government schools and make no contribution whatsoever towards it. Everyone with children in school should pay an education levy based on ability to pay. The maximum levy paid by the highest income earners should be equal to the full cost of the education (ie cost to the government of the school attended). That would be a fair system. It would not, of course, stop people from spending far in excess of the average goverment cost to send their children to schools like Sydney Grammar School where annual fees for high school are now in excess of $22000 per year (more than twice the average spent in government schools).

Waterboy, table 2 of the aforementioned fact sheet says that in 2003 the government funded public schools at $8361 per student and $10275 per private school student.

Really I can't see any equity in Glamorgan campus of Geelong Grammar being able to rebuild every building when the local state school needs reroofing, repainting.

Teachers at Exclusive Brethren schools say they are not teaching the NSW curriculum and teachers at these types of fundamental religion schools admit the curriculum is designed to seperate the students out from the mainstream and limit their choices. Quite frankly I want my money spent on enabling children to reach their full potential not being stifled in the confines of a restrictive religion.

Despite the inordinate amount of money the government spends propping up the Catholic church $80 million St Mary's spire, and whatever for Word Youth Day and $50 million to Randwick Race Course for interrupted racing, Australia is a secular society.

Billie

Read the chart more carefully! It shows that of the $10275 spent per child in independent schools only $5857 (you have to do a little arithmentic its ($4373m + $1859m)/1063988) came from government while $4417 came from fees paid by parents (that is what 'private funding' means).

I agree with you that spending in government schools should increase and this can only come from those who can afford it, hence my suggestion of an education levy on everyone who can afford it.... no matter where they send their children to school.

As for your dislike of various religions... I can do nothing about your prejudices and frankly they dont interest me. You are free to express them in open debate but as I have said before freedom of religion is a founding principle of Australian Society. Whether YOU like them or not they are entitled to practice their religion as long as they dont break the law and as the numbers REALLY show you are doing practically nothing by way of the tax system to contribute to their schools. The cost of educating YOUR children is probably more than you are contributing in tax anyway.

Well Waterboy if you had had a reasonable education you would have understood that Table 2 describes what the funding per capita.

" What Does This Mean in Per Student Terms? Table 2 Divides the Totals by the Number of Students in each sector in 2003. It shows that expenditure per private school student is nearly $2000 more than that on public school students. "

How dare you presume to know where my family is educated! It is my belief that we only get a strong education system when we have strong government schools. Most families pay to send their child to a private school because they believe the education is better. If the state system is poor then the religious schools can be poor too!

The fundamentalist K-12 and catholic parochial school systems do a particularly poor job of educating our youth.

I resent subsidising other people's religious beliefs and I don't expect you to subsidise my beliefs. I am not stopping you from practicing your religion but I dol not want to pay for it either. That's what a secular society is all about.