Sydney APEC? What did President. Hu learn from the Australian public during his visit to APEC. Can we imagine what had happened if our public were not allowed to use non-violent public action to show their moral distaste to the issues that were flushed, aired, questioned through the streets and media.

Can we not see how the role of Kevin Rudd and others (regardless of our views of Howard) helped keep this event even, peaceful at the same time as critical, for all the right reasons.

Can we see how much as a nation we began to learn, ... as a nation something important and valuable.

The central thing I see is the dangerous consequence, the outcome, when a powerful force uses BLAME and DENIAL and the oppression of the TRUTH. Balance can not ever be restored this way and if China gets away with this I do not believe NO Economic framework will help us, as a nation in the long-term future. This kind of force can also turn and manipulate us.

Capitalism is a source of immediate 'gratification' while what we see everywhere is the 'civic health bill' and the cost to maintain it 's careless dishonesty.

I believe in the original SEOUL Declaration, in " Participatory and Transparent Governance" and the need to make our capitalist resources work for everyone.

Until we understand the balance, we waste all that we gain and no celebration of the human challenge will be worth anything against ALL that remains not challenged.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:b0zLQ3H_3zgJ:unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/UN/UNPAN020790.pdf+SEOUL+DECLARATION&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=au

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/1/seoul.htm

Your artilce is stimulating and highly disturbing, I will think about it more and come back to it.

http://www.miacat.com/
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I am Chinese and I now live in Australia, having moved here in mid-2007. I read Australia news and also I read Chinese newspapers On-Line. We all care of about Tibet. What happened in Tibet?

I love my country. I learned Chinese history. I know that Tibet is a province of China. I am not interesting who has political China power. I am interesting that my country is coming up and strong in the world. I am interested that my country is safe so the people can enjoy their life. I want to see my country stand up in the world.

About Tibet, I agree Tibet need keep their Culture; also, Tibet‘s people need have good life from this world. I don’t know more about Tibetan Buddhism, which is practiced differently to China, but I know Bodhisattva want help all the people, let the people all have good life. So which life is good for the Tibet’s people? Think about this?

This time Chinese government for the first time on CCTV play about Lai Sa City protests. My friends, who is live in China, tell me Lai Sa, all the city, was like fire sea. School, government buildings, shops, any where on fire. Many of Tibet’s people hung a long narrow flag outside their buildings saying – ‘I am a Tibet person, don’t destroy my shop.’

So I am thinking this; why the people do this? If you want talk to the Chinese government, you can use other way. Aggression is a most stupid way. We all know any government must hold the most power in their country. They have strong army, they don't want lose any place from their country’s map. They must do something. This is rule. We can’t change.

I hate have a war; the people all need have a safe life. Bodhisattva tells us love all the people and help all the people. I wish Tibet people been safe and happiness.

Zhou Xiaosui

If there is one central issue, it is that Tibet is on the road from India into China; or on the road from China into India.
For more than a century these two giants have had birth rates higher than death rates.
What might have been of no concern prior to that is now a major issue: A billion people either side of Tibet,continuing to expand in both. Tensions from population stress upon society and consequent deterioration of environments build up on both sides of the mountains. Increasing numbers combined with burgeoning aspirations are the fuel of powder kegs straddling the boundaries.
China quite reasonably expects to have the whip-hand as to who controls that road to the mountain passes, and I salute the second poster wsriting from an informed Chinese perspective.

find the headwaters of the yangtze, and yellow river on a map. china will turn loose of this natural asset sometime after hell freezes over.

so, yes, it's suicidal to protest violently. not very bright either.

before the han invasion, tibet was not a nice place. it was a slave society, with all the usual cruelty that ensues. it might, on balance, be a better place now. if young ethnic tibetans don't like to see han in tibet, that is understandable, but there are some tibetans in high office, some are being given a modern education, it could be worse.

tibetans might be treated really badly, like aborigines here, for instance.

Yes I salute Zhou Xiaosui and Colinsett.

On Demos comment I add that the History of Invasion in Vietnam might shed light here.

After 1000 invasions through history and not including the one we became part of, the Indigenous Vietnamese people (also 80% Buddhist) were increasingly pushed down further and further into (former) Saigon, which is now Ho Chi Minh City. The sharing, friendly, cultures we know today as the Cambodian peoples, in turn were pushed further downward until there was no room for them either in this part of Vietnam. These people too were forced to flee and then merge into the regions of Cambodia and Laos, as we now know it, and this is why those cultures struggle, as they are closely coping with all that is mixed.

This is exhausting for a peoples, all this oppression and cultural based conflict. It is unsustainable when you think of that struggle and the many, many, many inter-generations killed... even before the US war beset the latest dynamic trend.

If you were bullied by an overpowering culture you have three choices.

1) You try to live with it in Peace.

2) You try to join it, as life is too difficult if you don't and given you can hardly achieve a thing to change anything from the outside.

3) You flee your land cultural network, family and village.

3a) If you don't you are risking death and there is no future for a family or community in such uncertainty.

Either way the domination, heavy-handed force is directed at you, and it wins every time. MONO-STATE of affairs.

It must be terribly difficult given the reality of the Chinese power base for the Tibetan intellectuals and all those young who just want to give their parents hope, by trying to get ahead.

I wish China would look after its own people. Let the rest GO... consolidate to become both a moral and scientific leader in harmony which could be a more skilful kind of success.

http://www.miacat.com/

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DIALECTIC BLUE!

You are quite wrong... 'China' was a province of TIBET!

The Tibetan Empire extended at one stage from Bhutan in the south to Mongolia in the north.. that makes China owned by TIBET!

So.. in any case.. do you wonder now why the English and Emericans treated the Chinese so badly with the Opium and various wars to open China up ? Don't ever EVER speak about "poor chinese victims of western imperialism" because the Chinese are just as imperialistic and JUST as racist toward others.

Ethnic chinese in Tibet are given preference for land and contracts, and all the usual rubbish that tyrants serve up for themselves.

THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT and all of its people who sympathetically support its tryannical and despotic and ugly cruel vile forced low wages, forced this forced that, and the theft of Australian and US jobs by forcibly keeping wages low, and mistreating workers.. by clearing people who are 'inconveniently' located where some arrogant power and money hungry well connected PIG who wants to extend his personal empire.. .. will one day again be 'victims' of their own pride and arrogance.

What do you mean YOUR country? (China)? you live in Australia now..and you better start changing your attitude that now AUSTRALIA is 'your' country, or.. we might begin to suspect that you are a fifth columnist for Ethnic Chinese Imperialism and expansion.

If you live here and don't regard this as 'your country' (and adopt its culture and values...then.. LEAVE.

Wow, this is a good one Boaz.

>>You are quite wrong... 'China' was a province of TIBET! The Tibetan Empire extended at one stage from Bhutan in the south to Mongolia in the north.. that makes China owned by TIBET!<<

From which year to which year was China a province of Tibet?

And where do you get the notion that this would validate the concept that China is "owned" by Tibet?

But I guess it was just an excuse to leap in with your second-favourite hate campaign, against the Chinese. And it is not a particularly edifying rant, either..

>>THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT... tryannical and despotic and ugly cruel vile forced low wages... theft of Australian and US jobs by forcibly keeping wages low, and mistreating workers.. by clearing people who are 'inconveniently' located where some arrogant power and money hungry well connected PIG who wants to extend his personal empire..<<

Have you any idea how the development of the Chinese economy has benefitted those low-paid, mistreated workers you refer to? In twenty years, over 400 million people have been lifted out of poverty. China now represents around 10% of world trade, which is highly appropriate for a country chock-full of extremely hard-working people.

What is your problem? I suspect that it has much to do with their being your competitors in business. Much as your problem with Islam stems from it being in competition with your own religion.

As for your rant against DialecticBlue:

>>If you live here and don't regard this as 'your country' (and adopt its culture and values...then.. LEAVE.<<

If you are seriously suggesting that Tibet owns China, who, in your enlightened view, "owns" Australia? And by definition, those who came here, and failed to adopt the prevailing culture and values, should leave?

Consistency never was your strong suit, Boaz.

I guess it never will be.

Dear friends,

a great article by someone who has the credentials and knowlege to comment and inform.

For myself, the old maxim...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink...applies. Regardless of all the economic statistics the PRC propaganda care to quote, at the end of the day if the PRC still won't hear it...they just can't let the Tibetan people go. The Tibetan people will never give up their country and their spirituality and the PRC Motherland will never become a true reality in their minds and hearts.

In reality, for the PRC it's obviously all about the strategic base for miltary reasons in the area and a land grab...the Tibetan people are unfortunately caught up in this and the world will continue to look on and watch the cultural genocide play out like a slow and painful disease.

But bullies don't last forever...and eventually the PRC will secum just as the Soviet Union and other strongholds become eroded with the internal capitalism exposing the younger generations to ever burgeoning materialsm.

Poor fellows all.
I support a boycott of the Olympic Games by Australia for both the sake of Chinese and Tibetan people. Though symbolic, it will mark the time of end of PRC as we know it.

Pericles,

Thanks, from Mr DialecticBlue

Xiaosui does not have a background as a political voyeur, like her husband. It was very courageous of her to make that post. I think the current 'on-line' articles, and comments (mostly) on the issue are bringing out a new perspective.

It is always healthy to question our assumptions.

I'm in complete agreement with Boaz David's comments regarding Dielectic Blue's allegiances. Great advertisement for multiculturalism, eh? DB'c comments also echo the Han/PRC's (why do dictatorships feel compelled to incude the words "republic" and/or "democratic" in their titles when they are clearly anything but?) feelings towards Tibetans- they "should be thankful for everything we've done for them, the ungrateful sods".

I'm sure a lot of people around the world are questioning the wisdom of handing the Olympics to China. The Tibetans are canny in at least one thing- they picked a good year to bring world attention (once again) to their plight. Hopefully the matter will be kept "on the boil" right up to August, although one shudders at the cost to the Tibetan people.

The spin the PRC are putting on Tibet is laughable, if not pitiful. No Tibetan casualties (we haven't fired a shot!!), only Han Chinese. They must really think everyone but a Han Chinese is a complete idiot.

"The recent protests mark the 49th anniversary of the Tibetan uprising of 1959 when anti-Chinese and anti-communist demonstrations erupted on the streets of Lhasa, and were put down by force.

Lhasa's three major monasteries - the Sera, Drepung and Ganden, were seriously damaged by shelling. The Dalai Lama was forced to flee into exile and the Tibetan government-in-exile estimates that 86,000 Tibetans died.

Less than a decade later, Mao's Cultural Revolution wrought havoc in the region and the Red Guards destroyed more than 6,000 monasteries and convents - just a handful survived.

Along with the buildings, hundreds and thousands of priceless and irreplaceable statues, tapestries and manuscripts were destroyed.

"At that time all the monasteries were destroyed. The whole country was changing during the revolution. The wave of change was unstoppable," says Dondrup, a 77-year-old monk at the Pel Kor Monastery in Gyantse.

---

Every monastery and nunnery in Tibet is visited at least once every few weeks by a Communist Party official, who checks that the government rules and regulation are being correctly applied.

Butri, a Tibetan Communist Party cadre, explains: "I visit these temples once or twice a month. I tell them what to do and what not to do. They all listen and say nothing."

The government is also very careful whom it allows to become a monk. All novices have to go through a detailed vetting procedure which takes years to complete. Even their families are checked for any subversive background.

The Chinese government also restricts the number of monks and nuns. In fact, monasteries can no longer perform many of their rituals correctly because of a shortage of monks.

Tsultrim, the deputy head lama of the Pel Kor monastery in Gyantse, said at its peak the monastery was home to 1,500 monks. Today the Chinese government restricts numbers to no more than 80."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7307495.stm

If Cronulla riot reported this way in other side of the world:

After two Arabic muslim were badly beated by a group of anglo racist in Cronulla, tens of thousands of people went to street to protest the racism peacefully ... heavily armed police blocked the road to Cronulla, nobody was allowed to go to beach and last journalist from muslim world was expelled ... hundreds of protestor were injured ... police ask protestor to surrender ... after the deadline, police will "Weed out extremists"...thousands of muslim are gathering in most surveillant street and mosque in Lakemba, silently pray for the coming storm ...

millions of people across the middle east countries go to street, ... emotional protestor called sanction to Australia , Ji* to Australia...

Chinese premier called Australian gov to "show restraint", lots of Chinese were not satisfied with this soft approchach.

CRUSADE is continuing ...

open your mind and report Redfern riot in your way...

Just for broadening your view

The incidents at Cronulla and Redfern are utterly incomparable to Tibet, in every way.

In Australia there is no internet censorship regarding these events, there was no attempts to block foreign journalists from reporting on these events, and there was certainly no Australian military units involved in containing these events.

Since the Communist Party of China effectively cut off that country from the rest of the world for half a century, what we see now is many Chinese taking any criticism of their ruling regime ('government') as an insult to their country, themselves and even their race.

So why take it so personally? It isn't about YOU, it's about the dictatorship that rules over China in a very brutal manner.

At the end of the day it boils down to this: in Australia we are free to strongly criticise the government if we choose. In China there is a good chance you will be arrested and sent to a 're-education' camp (Gulag).

China do have a lot of problem, same as lots of other countries, as a big country, China has additional harsh problem.

The incidents at Cronulla and Redfern do comparable to Tibet, in most way.

>>Communist Party of China effectively cut off that country from the rest of the world for half a century<< west countries sanction China

>>In Australia there is no internet censorship, in Australia we are free to strongly criticise the government>> at certain acceptable level

...
>>So why take it so personally? It isn't about YOU, it's about the dictatorship that rules over China in a very brutal manner>> not personally, no bias, just for truth which some people denied accept.

It is interesting that someone is ignorant but acts as an savior. Because lots of people can not face the harsh fact, lets take a soft example.

Former BHP CEO said when interviewed by ABC TV, " ... just a couple of years ago, we all blamed China's banking system, their bad debt; but now US themselves face serious problem in its banking system." Today, we all know there are credit crunch in US banking system, while overall credit quality remains quite strong in China's banking system, but I bet you never know west invest banks profited $150 Billion from bought China's bank stock in much lower price than IPO price.

that can explain a lot ...