“More importantly, by granting ethnic minorities these autonomous regions, they have the opportunity to maintain their cultural customs” the Author says.
What a lot of nonsense, when he tells us that:
“There are currently six universities, 118 secondary schools, seven intermediate vocational schools and 880 elementary schools, together with a total enrolment of 540,000 students and a participation rate of 96.5 per cent of the school age population. A further 60 per cent of the population received at least nine years of compulsory education with the illiteracy rate among the young people reducing to 15 per cent. ---- by the end of 2005 at least 85 per cent of the local population had gained access to radio and television.”
Tibet’s cultural customs were totally alien to such enlightenment, provision of which to the community would have been a total affront to the traditional elite.

Dear friends,

the old maxim...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink...applies. Regardless of all the economic statistics you care to quote, at the end of the day if the PRC still won't hear it...they just can't let the Tibetan people go. The Tibetan people will never give up their country and their spirituality and the PRC Motherland will never become a true reality in their minds and hearts.

In reality, for the PRC it's obviously all about the strategic base for miltary reasons in the area and a land grab...the Tibetan people are unfortunately caught up in this and the world will continue to look on and watch the cultural genocide play out like a slow and painful disease.

But bullies don't last forever...and eventually the PRC will secum just as the Soviet Union and other strongholds become eroded with the internal capitalism exposing the younger generations to ever burgeoning materialsm.

Poor fellows all.
I support a boycott of the Olympic Games by Australia for both the sake of Chinese and Tibetan people. Though symbolic, it will mark the time of end of PRC as we know it.

Yes, liberation and true happiness, just like those people slaughtered by machine guns in Tienanamen Square and crushed by the tanks of the PEOPLES' Liberation army outside it.

All the Tibetans seem to want is autonomy within the Han Empire, which is not much of an ask. As for the Uisgurs, aren't they the descendents of a Caucasian, Celtic people who lived there before the Chinese?

China will be wanting to "re-liberate" Vietnam next, and give it universities.

TRUTH is essential. Jieh-Yung Lo, bring balance into your article.

When Power and Money dominate the economic, social and cultural-political rights of people, there is no HOPE.

In our hands is the worlds progress of marginal ethnic populations. .

Chinia's interest in Tibet is politically strategic and economic.

The inter-relationship problem is as a result of the Tibetan people's basic life-quality is being undermined. If China had done more to enhance their life-style indices I am sure they would be the first to hark well-being.

Did you listen to the Prime Minister of Canada last night on SBS Dateline and the 'contract’ discussing the Human Right conditions signed by China in hosting the 'World Games'.

This is a world document listing the Human Right abuses, and a formal signature, legally endorsed.

You would be blind to not include some of this information in your article.

No one denies the improvements of China however panic and mis-reporting, aiming their entire media machine on a 'Blame Game' is shocking, tactfulness diplomacy. This is before we go into the evidence of Chinas role in Sudan or her credit underwriting America's budget in the Iraq war.

To me this is the whole worlds future symbolically resting on the technical, legal matters.

A show of weapons and 400 Tanks to stop a "flame' is not the way, especially when peaceful communication was so clearly available. Violence attracts more violence, hence the cycle.

France, Canada and the EU are at least discussing the situation "OPENLY".

Everyone has a stake in the outcome of how this situation not just governments, athletes and investing shareholders.

I suggest our Prime Minister Rudd do more than constraint rhetoric. The soft call of restraint is past the known circumscription formulas. We need you to refresh, create a new, true variable at the foot of the bridge.

What has the world become, where are we going?

http://www.miacat

1. The use of 'Government' to denote the Hu and thugs running the CCP (running the PRC) is an unwarranted honor. The government of continental China is categorically illegtimate and fake. What happened to our democrat's perjorative, "regime"?
2. In accordance with CCP ideals, they practice thoroughly their duty to tell lies. The Chinese Embassy to Israel issued a lying statement re the Matas Kilgour report on Organ Harvesting in the PRC. Why do our media seriously quote PRC authorities?
3. With the recognition of an oppression-led increase in the standard of living in China, I suppose now China, Cuba, North Korea, and perhaps our author, will admit a return to a white supremacist-led economic recovery for the poor of South Africa, Rhodesia etc.
4. The PRC is a secret state. There is no verification available of their claims. Discussion of their affairs should start from that fact.

"While we witness unfortunate tragic stories from individuals and groups, let us keep in mind all the positive and progressive work the Chinese Government is currently doing to ensure that its ethnic minorities can participate equally and share in China’s economic prosperity."

Unfortunately, those who are old enough remember one European nation who made the same claims in 1938 and 39. It's not a question of magnitude or even culture. It's equally as damning to nations who sit on the sidelines and do nothing.

There is much to admire about the Chinese people and Chinese history but in Tibet it's clearly invasion and murder.

Just imagine what China can do when they achieve world dominance.Too many people consuming energy and resources thus lowering China's living standards! It could be time for some ethnic cleansing on a grand scale.Who would stop them given the distaste the US public have over the Iraq adventure?

Only 400 million Chinese are currently involved in their present industrial revolution.They have another 900 million waiting in the wings!The US haters may well find that North America are just a bunch of pussies in the stakes of Global power,when the China and India achieve their nemisis.

UNNNNNbelievable.... oh wait... no.. it IS believable... that an ETHNIC CHINESE person, sees only 'good' in what the 'Chinese' government is doing in Tibet.

And anyone who still wonders why I attacked this person in the past, for being on some ETHNIC council.. and why I claimed that 'ETHNIC' councils and community groups (IncLUDing even Churches which have an 'ethnic' name...e.g "Chinese" evangelical Church of...placename) persue racist interests.. of their own group.. should now read THIS article and 'wake up'.

If you still had lingering doubts about the true racist nature of 'ethnic' minority agendas, they should be completely dispelled by this amazing confession from Yung Lo.

He does not even SEE it as a confession.... OR .. as racist.. OR as EVIL... but it's all those things.. just ask the Tibetans who's land is being consumed by millions of ethnic HAN Chinese on a daily basis.
Ask the Tibetans who want a government job, (where they actually persue Tibetan interests) who want the freedom to criticize the government.. (and who want the freedom to do what "I" am doing right now without the worry of some thugs rolling up at 3.00am to take them a way and be 'processed' for the organ transplant market by some corrupt local PRC party member.)

So, we should re-title the article "China and its Racist Oppression and Imperialist Exploitation of defenseless vulnerable Ethnic Minorities"....

Next thing we know, Jieh will trot out an article "The valid reasons behind the Chinese invasion of Vietnam" and will list a host of benefits the Vietnamese would have obtained had the Chinese aggressors been victorious.

SO..."Who's Interests" is Jieh serving here ? Australia's? Hell no!
He is acting like a paid member of the Chinese intelligence service.

<<"its ethnic minorities can participate equally and share in China’s economic prosperity. One such example that has been booming both economically and socially is the autonomous region of Tibet.>>

EQUALLY?
Who benefits most in Tibet? err.. could it be the 8 million HAN chinese who have been given Tibetans land?

one of the most disgusting articles i've read on olo. the man is a dishonest stooge.

I don't support China's occupation of Tibet. But this article raises by implication issues about how Tibet was run by the monks. This is a worthy article for OLO because it puts another perspective that is impossible to find in the Australian press, and it provokes some hard questions.

It is probably not easy for Jieh-Yung to put this argument, given the way most Australians feel, but I'd ask posters to show him some respect. Deal with his arguments, not his presumed character.

nonsense. lo's arguments may have some truth behind them, and in fact i think some of them do, but they are completely irrelevant. china has no moral right to decide tibet's fate. end of story. everything else is apologist obfuscation. the only question is whether lo knows he's a stooge or not. that is, is he a hack or a fool?

I strongly support Graham Young's stance on this one, though I differ strongly with his some of his philosophy in other areas.
It might be sobering to step back a bit from the heat - far enough to admit that information coming out of Tibet at the moment is hardly neutral whatever its origins.
The place was never a fairy-land Shangri-La. I have sympathy for the poor buggars caught in the middle at the moment - whether they are being shot by Chinese military, or burned in their buildings by the activists. The pacifist Dali Lama is indeed in a distressing position however it is viewed.
Graham Young is right to allow perspectives from either side - and any sensible observer will expect some imbedded disinformation in both.

jieh-Yung wrote 'will be entering an age of unprecedented prosperity and happiness.'

yung you are a han chinese right...proud of identity, close community bonds, intelligent and progressive in the material things...

tibetaans truly are a different breed...the tibetan plateau is one of the harshest environment on earth...you and I wouldnt survive too long...they do and have for long time and isolated by geography...it takes a special group of people to stay there...otherwise migrated long ago into sunny vietnam...you need to appreciate this point...

tibetaans are spiritually biased, gentle and closed, knowledge and harmony drives their daily life...

peoples republic world envisioned on tibetaans will not work...yes china rules tibet...but the nature of the tibetaans so far stopped them from picking up a gun...but the violent demonstrations show that there is a limit...and once that gun is picked up...china is looking at a war that will make russia-afghanistan childs play in that terrain...

What tibetaans need is respectful distance...allow them to set the lines of meeting...and assist them if needed to live their lives...for they have a knowledge and experience of spiritual side of us that most of us have not even aware exists...very capable to their chosen fields...so its better for us to wait patiently until they show us more of their world...

Sam

You cannot ram 'Han Chinese Prosperity' down a Tibetan throat and expect him not to puke.

Its as simple as day and night.. hot and cold.. look at how the Indigenous Australians feel at the White presense.... look at how disconnected they have become from their own roots.. why ?

"What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul" said Jesus..

and although he spoke this in connection with the material verses the spiritual.. in particular the competing forces of the Kingdom of God, and material wealth, it applies more generally in regard to race relations.

If you destroy a mans spirit, then say "Oh look.. I bought you this nice new pair of shoes".. err.. don't hold your breath waiting for him to say 'thanx'....

Only racist ethno-centrism can see 'good' in racist imperialistic evil done to other people.

Lets make no mistake.. PRC takeover/invasion of Tibet was all about 'expanding territory'... thus it is inherrently evil.

Economic prosperity does dead people no good at all.. dead inside.

The most important thing in all this to address..is 'racist ethno centrism' and how this impacts on the Australian social texture.

We can always have our own protest, but considering China is our BIGGest trading partner.. how far will our own government let that go ?

I'm more worried about Ethnic ANYone.. Chinese, Lebanese, Italian, Greek, Vietnamese.. any.. who approach Australia in terms of their OWN ethnic or religious background and operate on the assumption that Australia is really a new little 'their old place'.

We anglos did it.. why should other be immune? The thing is, we are sufficiently diverse and homogonized now that the various ethnic backgrounds are blurred and we can all ourselves 'Australians'

Several years ago, on a World Conference on Women, many Tibetan women also attended the meeting. These Tibetan women are mainly from the two groups; one from the Tibetan autonomous region of China and the other from an NGO on behalf of the “Free-Tibet” which is financially supported by the major western powers.

As usual, the woman delegates from the NGO claimed that the Tibetan culture is being destructed and the only way to rescue is to reverse the history to let the Dalai Lama come back to lead an “Independent Great Tibet” or “Highly Autonomous Great Tibetan Area.” They voiced out their claims in English, so that their claims were easily passed and quoted by the reporters of major western countries. When the Tibetan women from the Tibet Autonomous Region of China tried to discuss the Tibetan Cultural Destruction issue with the Tibetan women from the “Free Countries,” they found there was no way to communicate directly between them because the Tibetan women from the “free countries” do not speak Tibetan while the Tibetan women from Tibet do not speak English.

Thus, we saw two groups of Tibetans; though they are common on similar faces and having the similar costume styles, the difference between them is the group of Tibetans from “Free Countries” can speak English only but not Tibetan while the group of Tibetans from Tibet can speak Tibetan but not English. When the two Tibetan groups are arguing on the Tibetan issues, the English spoken Tibetans took advantage of the Tibetan spoken Tibetans since their can voice out directly to the journalists of “free countries” while none of the reporters from the “free countries” speaks Tibetan. Nevertheless, the reporters from the “free countries” never bothered to listen to what the Tibetan-spoken Tibetans’ voices through the interpreters. Then, ironically, on the major media and newspapers of the “free countries” the claim of the “Tibetan culture is being destructed” by the Tibetans who have already forgotten how to speak Tibetan are widely quoted while the voices of Tibetan spoken Tibetans were ignored by the journalists of “free countries.”

I still remember the look on the faces of the Chinese officals when Antonio Samaranch announced Sid-din-ney as the hosts of the 2000 olympics.How could Beijing be ever spelt this way?If arrogance and rage could kill,Sid-din-ney would have been wiped from the planet.

We have to look at the reality of global power.At the present the US has the big guns,but not the will or political system to back it up with man power.China will soon have both.China by stealth could invade countries like Australia,and the US could do nothing about it.

Imagine this scenario;the new Airbus A380 can carry 800 people.China would only need a hundred to take Australia.Just take all the major airports in Aust in a surprise attack.Once they have landed,do we think that the US will send troops here to save us?It would be too late!Would the US actually begin a nuclear war with China to save a mere 21 million people?No likely.Self preservation would come first.

With the rise of China Aust needs to take more responsibility for it's own security.We should consider nuclear weapons,and strategies such as having the capacity to make all our airports inoperable at a moments notice.

The US is fast finding being the world's policeman very distasteful,and we could suffer the fallout and suddenly have more empathy with Tibet.

While some people are claiming that this article is rubbish and propaganda, so are the posts of many who are making these claims.

There are (at least) two points of view to every controversy. In another article on Tibet an attempt was made to put a different perspective. It was not accepted. This article may be considered too far the other way but, yet again, people are making no attempt to try to find any middle ground between this and their own ideas which are also way too far the result of propaganda.

The present conflict has been so mis-represented by a lot of the Western press (who, let us not forget, were not there) that even some o/s journalists are protesting.

Of course its been given a lot of publicity here on Chinese TV and lots of footage has been shot. In every TV panel or discussion there has also been Western representation and views. Swedish and Dutch packpackers who were on the scene have been interviewed, along with visiting businesspersons and holiday-makers.

Tibetan residents and those who were caught up in the violence have also been interviewed as have those in hospital. There has been no distinction made in interviews between Tibetan or Chinese patients or bystanders who were caught up in the mob violence which has maimed and injured and killed, as mob violence always does.

Before it is claimed that this article relies too heavily on Chinese propaganda perhaps one should evaluate fairly whether an opposing viewpoint relies too heavily on Western propaganda?

One starting point would be to consider that there was no military presence either on the night, before or since. Local police (a large number of whom were killed) were the only force used to stop the brutality.

once again, nonsense. lo's article is not about the current conflict: it is about how wonderful the chinese government is for the tibetan people. and once again, whatever the tenuous truth of this claim, it is totally beside the point. the point is the right to self-determination.

you guys want to labor the point about the bias of the western media, and the western fantasies of tibet as some kind of spiritual paradise. and that's all true. but it doesn't change the fact that lo's article is apologist, obfuscatory twaddle.

Actually, comment is far beyond of any specific topic.

Many people are so arrogant and narrow mind after so many years biased ... They already got the conclusion before judgement.

Put aside this difficult judgement. Lets take a simple one to test our judgement.

Most news related to zimbabwe are abuse of democracy. But how many know the foundamental conflict is land nationalisation, a land reform program announced by President Robert Mugabe in 2000. While a few british anglos who occupy majority land taken from zimbabwean decades ago, asked zimbabwean to buyback their land in market price.

Then, there are overwhelming reports such as "Human Rights watch slams Zimbabwe govt" ...

Here's a bit of Zen for everyone:

Which party did the people in China vote for in their last election?

>>Which party did the people in China vote for in their last election?>>

This is big question.

China is a big country with a long history. They have their own value system. Millions of people lost their life in order to find a better system. West style democratization is not a solution for China, at least currently.

I can name some west style democratic countries for you: Australia, Zimbabwean, Israel, Palestine, UK, Iran, USA, Iraq ...

This paper could be helpful for you:
<<Electing to Fight: Why Emerging Democracies Go to War>> Edward D. Mansfield and Jack Snyder

http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=10308

West countries should be confident and democratic enough to let others choose their own system.

Quite a loaded topic.

I'd be interested to see where the critics stand in relation to the statistics the author highlights.
If they are indeed true, they do make a very good point, even if that point doesn't sit well with my general opinion of how Tibet was annexed.

I don't for a moment think China was in any way justified in seizing the country or for the brutality that has been inflicted on the Tibetan monks and the people. Whilst I imagine the Chinese historically have always viewed Tibet as one of their provinces, it's evident the Tibetans didn't see it that way.

But while it's a historical injustice, globally there are many such injustices which are unlikely to be reversed. From that perspective, I look to what the future holds if not separation for Tibet.

I think it most unlikely that Tibet will be separated - thus I wonder, within the confines of Chinese policy, what the best way forward is for the area.

Of course we can discuss what'd be best - I agree, it'd be nice if Tibet was allowed to be an independent nation. Yes, it would be great if China adopted a pluralist party system with genuine democracy. Yes, it'd be great if their human rights abuses were halted.

But in lieu of those things, I guess this article highlights the reality on the ground for Tibetan people, is they've had an improvement in standard of living - and it'd appear, perhaps the history of the area combined with public opinion, has meant that after the initial brutality of the invasion, and yes, the repression of aspects of their culture, the Chinese Government has been put in a position where they treat Tibetans a little more favourably than the Han majority.

I guess what I'm saying is that while the idealist perspective states that it'd be nice for Tibet to see greater autonomy, the cynical realist in me sees that perhaps Tibet isn't quite as oppressed, save for issues of independence, which ultimately, isn't something most Chinese citizens have a great deal of either.

trtl, I do so admire your ability to do that: look rationally (albeit somewhat cynically)at a question. Yep, I guess your conclusions are pretty much the same as mine. And have you ever been there? Its a barren-desolate place where, apart from the monks, the illiterate inhabitants barely managed to eke out a living. The improvements to lifestyle have indeed benefited the original inhabitants. So, yeah, trite but true: nothing is ever as clear-cut as it may seem.

TRTL, this critic's opinion is that the author's statistics are entirely irrelevant. if China has been so wonderful for Tibet, then presumably the Tibetan's can come to that conclusion themselves. I don't see any evidence of them being asked, or that they would agree if they were asked. Would Lo agree to the Tibetans having a vote for independence? If not, why not?

Look, I'm not blind to the author's point. I don't automatically buy his statistics, but I don't rule them out either. I have no illusions about Tibet having been a Buddhist paradise, but it is somewhat of a strawman to presume that without China, Tibet would have remained an unchanged backwater. It's mixed. There is an argument there.

And yes, I understand the moral question is distinct from the question of realpolitik. (so does the Dalai Lama, by the way). But Lo's post was not about realpolitik: Lo's post was about the Chinese government as the Good Guys.

And that is THE point: when it comes to Tibet, it is for the Tibetans to decide whether the Chinese government are the Good Guys. it is this point that Lo refuses to consider. My opinion of his post remains unchanged.

40% of China's mineral resources are tapped from the region of Tibet. No wonder an all-out war of psychology is currently underway in order to preserve the status of Tibet as being under the sovereign jurisdiction of China.

>>And that is THE point: when it comes to Tibet, it is for the Tibetans to decide whether the Chinese government are the Good Guys. <<

Most people don't speak Tibetan, while most Tibetan spoken Tibetans live in Tibet, so the author's statistics really means a lot. Actually it's common sense in democratic society.

As you know, democratically elected Australian politician usually demonstrates their achievement by school teacher's number and infrastructure improvement etc.; while people express their concerns on doctor's shortage etc.

Also, after US invaded Iraq, CNN demonstrated Iraq became democratic because there are more satellite antenna number.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd just launched a "CLOSE GAP" program. I am look forward know what kind of saintly program it is.

>>40% of China's mineral resources are tapped from the region of Tibet<<

in Tibet only or plus other region, 40%? where the data from? bottom line, in past 1,300 years, China didn't benefit much from Tibetan mineral.

>>No wonder an all-out war of psychology is currently underway in order to preserve the status of Tibet as being under the sovereign jurisdiction of China <<

Nobody denies government decision is more rational than individual, so please tell us which country, USA or other major countries, declare Tibet is not part of China, today, 60 years ago, 200 years ago and 500 years ago.

... what ?... 500 years ago? there was no USA!... Then where is American Indian and its culture ? ... genocided ? !
But, there are tens of thousands of full time monks got their salaries from Chinese central gov now.

DaLai LaMa selection system was set up by chinese central gov, and some DaLai LaMa were directly nominated by central gov in the past hundreds of years.

And why not aboriginal declare independent, while waste time to claim land titles in court? As BHP, RIO profited billions every year...

Centra - I'm really glad you have entered into this thread. I think there are some people who have never heard the Chinese point of view other than from writers whom they suspect of having agendas.

Thus there is a danger that some peoples' views are formed after only ever having heard one side of the story. They have not had the opportunity to weigh up any situation which arises in China from differing stances.

As you have just pointed out: the parallels between the situation they describe and the situation with Australian aboriginals really does provide an opportunity to ask why, if unfairness towards minority groups is what angers them, they do not work harder to ensure that such things are not happening in their own back yards?

In the case of the politician Bartlett, who is calling for sanctions against the Olympic games on another thread, one wonders whether he was so vehement in calling for a ban on the Sydney games in the name of the human rights questions raised by members of the Aboriginal community in his own constituency in 2000?

Well CENTRA... it is abundantly clear that you are very much on the side of the CHINESE INVADERS in this matter... hmm do you have the same positive view of the 'invasion' of Western countries in China..the Opium wars.. the coastal trading centres which were backed up by gun boats?

By your logic they were allll 'ok'..but I'll bet you don't see it that way.

EVERYthing you have said so far is to justify cruelty, invasion and cultural genocide by CHINESE against Tibetans.

"West countries should be confident and democratic enough to let others choose their own system."

Is this April 1st? Is that a joke ? When did the Chinese CHOOSE their own system? it came out of the barrels of many GUNS.

Some gallant and brave Chinese TRIED to 'choose' and at Tien An Min Square they were squashed by tanks and their heads blown off with ak47s.

Why do you insult our intelligence by thinking you can just rattle off a few quick statements about history and suddenly we are going to celebrate Chinese PRC hegemonism, cultural imperialism and Economic exploitation of Tibet? We might do that.. when HELL freezes over.

ROMANY.. you are so desperate to find something 'good' in this.. I ask you.... if I told you "and you ARE going to be 'Christian' and if you refuse, I'm sending you off to a Gulag for the next 30 yrs" would you be thrilled? NO! of course not, so why even try to find 'middle ground' in this disgusting example of Chinese Militarist expansionist colonialism?

Its not a question of desperately trying to find something good, its more a question of trying to find something more fair: the truths as others see them.

Look, at Uni there were always posters and students manning stalls that said "Free Tibet". I took the pamphlets and I asked the people and what I heard was horrifying and I burned with righteous indignation. We all had this picture of Shangri la, with bells tinkling and happy, colourful people in verdant pastures and kind, wise monks smiling benignly upon everyone. We also thought this utopia was then invaded by steely-eyed men with bayonets and guns who turned it into a military state.

But then I come here and I find that shangri-la is actually barren wastes of rocky ground with dirty, starving peasants and snotty nosed kids without enough to eat and no schools or health care whose only hope is to send a son into a monastery at the age of 7 to ensure that, although he'll still suffer from cold and inadequate health care, at least he may have enough to eat. And the son is no more spiritual than I, and hates being separated from his family and is an ordinary little boy who wants to go to school and play with his mates. And instead of towns full of tanks and trucks and soldiers they're full of tourists and ordinary people...its a different picture.

Then recently I actually witness the distortions of the Western media. They're just like the distortions I saw about Papua New Guinea and South Africa. The same distortions which caused me, as a journalist, to give up a career on staff and go freelance all those years ago. And I still resent the way the media jerks all our chains.

So what I am saying is: there are so many shades between white and black - we should explore them all.

Centra, perhaps it is the language barrier, but i've had trouble understanding your posts, which is why haven't addressed them. i still have trouble understanding, but i'll make a quick comment on your posts and romany's posts.

you both seem to be suggesting that there is a lot of hypocrisy and dishonesty in western coverage of tibet. i wholeheartedly agree. i have written in a number of posts that i don't buy the tibetan paradise line. and there is plenty of nasty nationalist behavior to point to from the "good" countries. i am confused by your reference to zimbabwe and iran and so on, but i don't think it matters. we could take it issue by issue, and country by country, and i am guessing that we would agree more often than not.

but i don't see how any of this dents criticisms of china's authoritarian behavior in tibet, or of Lo's apologist post

BOAZ_David, Bushbasher,
>>Some gallant and brave Chinese TRIED to 'choose' and at Tien An Min Square they were squashed by tanks and their heads blown off with ak47s. <<

Although there are lots of exaggerated biased report, but Chinese gov DID make a diaster mistake. Of course Chinese students and civilian protestors should take serious responsibilities too. It is a diaster, but avoided the worst case which China was in complete turmoil. China did have election system, of course far from perfect. CCP(Chinese Communist Party) has millions of member, also have some different sect. One reason of the diaster is that CCP did not quickly form a solution accepted by different sect and wasted the opportunities to bring quick and peaceful solution. (Maybe it was some sort of democracy.)

>>When did the Chinese CHOOSE their own system? it came out of the barrels of many GUNS.<<

Do you know French revolution, American Independent War, Israel independent from British...all came from GUNS.

There are lots of system for reference in China's detailed recorded 5000 years history. Of course, there are modern western systems for reference.

But China did get their own system. Right now, China is making progress peacefully and smoothly. 20 years past since 1989, millions of people (most of them are professionals not politians) had broad life experence in west countries and took indepth thinking.

Surprized everyone, IT IS Tian An Men PROTESTORS THEMSELVES who found western system is unfit for China. Some Western proposal simply are "poison bill". While some western people still in day dream to change China into a so-called ... country.

>>EVERYthing you have said so far is to justify cruelty, invasion and cultural genocide by CHINESE against Tibetans.<<

Listen what exiled DaLai LaMa said. He said again and again that he DOES NOT seek Tibet to be an independent country. Why many people in west so arrogant that they should be the representatives of Tibetans and seek Tibet to be an independent country. Tibet got his perfect right status. Tibet is an autonomous province in China. Tibet affair is China's Internal affair. It is different from international affair.

DaLai LaMa selection system was set up by China's central govt hundreds of years ago, no Tibetan wants to change the selection systems in past hundreds of years. Could you just pick up ONE Tibetan from millions of Tibetans all over the world, who opposes this system? It is part of their religion. So why force them change their culture, culture protector?

I have to say there is "culture collision" between Tibetan and other culture including mainstream Chinese culture and west culture etc, especially, recently there is dramatic improvement in transport system from Tibet to other area in the world.

>>Is that a joke ? When did the Chinese CHOOSE their own system?<<
>>the Opium wars.. the coastal trading centres which were backed up by gun boats?<<

In China's 5000 years history, usually Chinese choose their system by themselves. Of course, if they want to choose their own system, will only is not enough; power is essential, otherwise, opium trade will be legal.

It is unavoidable and maybe quite reasonable that there will be friction when a new power is rising. China survived 5000 years natural and social challenge. Current challenge really means nothing. Unfortunately, Tibetans are not beneficiary of this power struggle.

centra, i won't insert myself into your fight with boaz over the chinese government. i will make a few more remarks about tibet.

1) it is silly to say that tibet is "china's internal affair". you are simply begging the question.

2) it is true that the dalai lama is not calling for tibet's independence. that is realpolitik. it does not change the moral issues.

3) you claim that "china's central government hundreds of years ago" set up the dalai lama selection system. you're being tricky, and you know it. if you want to engage in debating trickery, that's fine. i just won't continue to engage with you. please tell the truth.

4) if china is so respectful of tibetan buddhist tradition, perhaps you would like to discuss Gedhun Choekyi Nyima.

you describe tibet as an "autonomous province". the reality is that there is nothing autonomous about it. you know this. i am sorry that your government receives much unfair criticism. but that is a poor excuse for defending immoral acts by your government

Bushbasher >>i am sorry that your government receives much unfair criticism<<
>>perhaps it is the language barrier, but i've had trouble understanding your posts<<

Very interesting, sometimes it is not so obvious to judge a person. Actually, Chinese govt is not my govt, but I do have close relation with China and spent a couple of years in China. I know that a lot of Chinese are quite open mind in debate on their website.

Handle of a dozen computer language plus three natural language is really not a easy job for me, but I did learn something from them. Every language has its own grammar/syntax, usually they function well if they are still being used, so does the social society.

I also learned a lot from my ten years working experience on five different industries in different countries. Even the respectable non profit professional organization such as IEEE can be nasty when they discuss the world technical standards such as 3G telecommunication standards. What could be happen on the social standards dispute?

Gday Aussie,
This is today's real world. Let's pray for the world peace.

sorry, centra! that was presumptuous of me to assume you were a chinese national.
(ps: i'm not aussie).

i'll leave it at that. i think my position is clear. as i suggested earlier, i think we would agree more than we disagree.

It is the "victor" who paints the picture of economic development, but as a generalisation I think it fair to say Tibet was a backward feudal poverty ridden dictatorship under the dalai lamas made up predominantly of Tibetans. Now it is backward semi-feudal less poverty ridden dictatorship under the CCP with a large Han population.

The uneven development in Tibet (ie major concentrations of capitalist exploitation and development among a sea of rural backwardness) is because the Tibetans played no role in determining who ruled them.

It was Lenin who argued that a nation has the right to self determination. The Tibetans do. It would be economic madness for them to chose anything other than some form of federation with China, but a federation perhaps based on the establishment of democratic principles for Tibet. Nevertheless the choice should be for the Tibetans, not that of the puppet regimes established by the guns of the PLA.

This argument that economic development is the sole determinant of the legitimacy of rule echoes comments by prominent mainstream western supporters of fascism in its early days that the trains ran on time, meaning the economies were booming and well regulated.

I have posted elsewhere that the Tibetans to win need to link up with that force in Chinese society which has the power to overthrow the CCP's dictatorship. That force is the Chinese working class. Any anti-Chinese actions or anti-Chinese chauvinism by Tibetans play into the hands of the regime and undermine the possibility of building such links.

The struggle in Tibet may (I stress may) help embolden Chinese workers and students. That in turn could up the ante in Tibet. But only if the Chinese working class overthrows the dictatorship can Tibet be free.

China is really difficult to be understood due to it huge size, population and long history and culture.

A lot of issue is not so obvious. For example, everyone including CCP member blames CCP, on the other hand, everyone believes no any other party can challenge CCP. At last, everyone believes CCP is not a communist party any more.

As "dictatorship", it is more connected with history or culture. China, or at large East culture is more care for group/national interest, while individual interest/freedom is more important in West culture.

CCP actually is the biggest winner from recent Tibet Riot, while west media is the biggest loser in China

The problem is that reporting is one-sided (state owned). Since we are not allowed to check with our own eyes or read opposing/independant views, we assume the worst.

This is fair. Particularly given 20th century Chinese history.

If the situation was all-good, why would a such restrictions be required? Similarly, government statistics are unverified by either an opposition or independant media. Why would I trust them.

All nations have some failures. Aborigine treatment in AU is a possible example. The thing is, this must be put in the open, so that we can look at the results and attempt to better them. I'd encourage the Chinese government to take that view. If nothing else, it's a smarter public relations strategy.

To the author: bravo. It's rare to see an article like this in the current environment. Regarding "balance": the full-on pro-Tibetan media campaign that we are witnessing right now is the one that needs "balance", desperately.

“Cultural cleansing”:

The article rightly mentioned the complete tax exemption in Tibet, but what also deserves mentioning is that 80% of expenditures in all Tibetan monasteries are also subsidised by the central government. This is because donation alone simply cannot support the vast number of monks in the system. This burden used to be on the shoulders of the 95% serf population in the old theocratic society.

If you have been to Tibet, you would have seen the many well-maintained monasteries, and people freely practicing their religious and cultural activities out in the open. Yes some monasteries were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s but the same had happened across China (e.g. Beijing lost at least 80% of its temples), it’s NOT racially motivated as some reports make it to be.

If you ever ventured out of Lhasa, you will find many Tibetan people spoke little or no Mandarin Chinese.

How are all these for “cultural genocide”?

Ethnic policy:

Ethnic minorities in China are not restricted by the “one child policy”, get extra bonus marks for university entrance exam, and get preferential treatment in education and employment.

When 2 people of different ethnicities marry, the parents can choose the registered ethnicity of the child, and for every case I know, my own cousin’s included, the parents had chosen the ethnic minority, not Han, because of all the privileges. This is one of the reasons why China’s minority population has grown exponentially from 1949’s 5-% to today's 8+% (i.e. at a faster rate than Han population). If China’s ethnic policies are really that bad, would this have happened?

And you would think important information such as the above would deserve at least a mention in our 'free' media.

There's no doubt that China has many deep issues, but if all you hear everyday is one sided stories, you’ve got to think twice.