G'day Whitty, thank you for your questions. I doubt that I can answer them all in one limited post but I'll make a start.

W: "If that was the majority male fantasy (Which I don't believe it is) why is that invalid?"

P: Would you read this and tell me what you think:
http://www.xyonline.net/Just_a_john.shtml

W: Why do you see this fantasy as a problem? Do you think men cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality? Do you think women don't enjoy any similar fantasies? If not you should read Nancy Friday's 'Women on Top'!

P: I haven’t read that book but I’m not surprised by it. I looked at some summaries and reviews. One said that it was good because she learned how to please men. At any rate, for the time in which it was written (? 15 years ago) it reflects an effort by women to get out from under the double standard and to take control of their own sexuality. It’s now no secret that women are far from asexual. More on that later perhaps.

I think that a lot of men cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality. Men have commented that porn gives them ideas of what to expect; ideas of new things to try and there are men who are dissatisfied with reality-sex in comparison to porn.

W/P: 'It therefore reinforces ideas that females are just bodies that are usable, discardable, contemptible.

W: How many men do you know who have have this idea of women… (word count)

P: Three matters: rape; murder; abandonment, and how much amateur porn do you think would be generated if it were left up to women to initiate, film and distribute it? I would say there’d be some, but I think most women participate to please their partners. Some women have such low self-esteem that they depend on sexual interest and approval to feel validated. Some may obtain other rewards for participation.

Another writer proposed that porn is less a cause of how men generally regard women than a symptom of a wider social malaise. Whatcha reckon?

Pynchme “explain what you found so amusing.”

This is a bit of a laugh, if you find,pretentiousness “funny”

“It's very interesting to observe the level of denial whereby some people dismiss the power of images to influence one's worldview.”

We are “reasoning” beings, our intelligence is able to distinguish between the facts and the fantasy of books or film.

“defend cigarette advertising and the like as harmless.”

The cigarette packet says “smoking is harmful to your health” not “watching this advert is harmful to your health”.

I am a reformed smoker, adverts assail me, to induce me to smoke. It amuses me, cigarette companies wasting their money, trying to seduce me.

“Porn is ever more insidious because it links images where women are dehumanized with basic sex drive.”

Really, the women in the porn I watch seem to be having a lovely time, lots of primeval panting and shuddering, hands, lips and tongues everywhere (and that’s just at foreplay).

Although I have heard it said, “sex is the most fun I have ever had, without actually laughing.”

“The bulk of it is created by men, for men,”

well I guess we might say, it is a male indulgence and a males sense of the visual.

I wonder how you view cosmetics?

The bulk of it created by who cares, for women, to indulge a woman’s feeling to be a perfect, sensual, self for her and to attract a lover.

“It therefore reinforces ideas that females are just bodies that are usable, discardable, contemptible.”

That has to be a joke, a bit of humorous sarcasm.

“Consensual sex and rape merge into one”

Big laugh that one. Consensual sex is about sex, including the wild side pursuits beyond “vanilla”, either the eruption of wild uncontrolled passion or the purposeful deferment of same, like tantric.

Rape has nothing to do with consensual sex.

Rape is about inflicting power and forced subjugation over an unwilling victim.

It is funny in the ridiculous sense, how anyone could be so off-the-mark to confuse the two.

Pynchme,

' tell me what you think:'

That is a ridiculous article. For a start, the guy who spoke up on the bus could well have been attempting to not be a hypocrite as he views porn himself, rather than this supposed 'loyalty to men and their right to use women sexually'.

You just cant equate voyeurism to prostitution. I'm sure you'd get many a model pretty riled up if you tried that argument. And what of male porn actors? Is it assumed men enjoy sex and women do not?

Also notice how examples of porn in these articles are always of men dominating women, yet all the examples of women dominating men, even humiliating men, which are just as abundant in the porn world are never mentioned.

' rape; murder; abandonment'
Rape was around before porn, Men murder more men than women. Abandonment?

' I think most women participate to please their partners.'
Ah that old chestnut. Women can never do any 'wrong' unless influenced by a man. And feminists go on about Adam and Eve. In the last breath you were just talking about women taking 'control of their own sexuality'. Now it's men's fault. Let me tell you there are even quite a few beastiality, rape, incest fantasies in Nancy Friday.

I think the objection to porn is really an objection to men's sexuality. Feminists would be tearing strips off men if we objected to any expression of female sexuality. What if we campaign to ban romance novels and movies as they give women an unrealistic expectation of relationships?

I'm sure if men could satisfactorily replicate female genetalia, and used them as much as women we would be accused of reducing women to a just a vagina. Men are responsible for their partner's self esteem and body issues if they view porn, while women use super fast vibrating instruments and massive phalluses yet men take ownership of any resultant feelings of inadequacy. Also notice 'men come too fast', not 'women come too slow'. It's all part of this demonising of male sexuality.

Col,

You seem to believe that the women that you're watching
are enjoying their porn participation. Why do you believe
that?

Pynchme,

Whilst not speaking for the Col, I am sure that some people don't enjoy the work they do and do it for the money, like a lot of people in a lot of jobs. I am also sure that some do enjoy and others are just neutral. There is undoubtable some out there which are forced into it as well (literally, not metaphorically).

Engaging in aesthetic criticism should be restricted to aesthetic and personal choice only. For moral judgement one should not look at the aesthetic content, but rather the moral conditions of the situation.

Pornography, like anything else, which involves people who are forced into the situation are morally repugnant and the perpetrators should be taken away from civil society. For those which who are doing it for the money without any real acceptance of their lot, is a question of welfare standards so people don't have to choose jobs that are somewhat distateful to them.

For those who are neutral or enjoy their work (for example, the films by http://www.candidaroyalle.com/) should be accepted for their freely chosen line of work.

The rights of sex workers are human rights. I urge you to respect them.

Dear Whitty,

You can’t have it all ways.

Either: Porn is acceptable to most men; therefore accurately reflects male sexuality and is mainstream. If that’s the case then porn is a symptom of the wider society – if it’s a symptom of a pre-existing state of being then one need not prove that porn causes abuse and hatred of women in the wider community, because the truth would be that the wider community of men already hates women and porn merely reflects that. If that’s so then it would be fair to say that I and anyone else opposed to porn condemns or demonizes male sexuality; but we have nothing to prove about porn specifically being harmful.

Or: Fewer men need porn and therefore porn is not representative of male sexuality and is not mainstream. If it’s not mainstream then it deviates from the norm. I do condemn the expression of male sexuality as portrayed in porn; however, it could not be concluded that I (or anyone else) condemns male sexuality because there would be the ‘norm’ of male sexuality that exists outside of porn.

Re: romance novels and so on – they’re dopey, but nobody is hurt in the making or consumption of them. Also, what do they reflect about men ? Whatever it is; it isn’t hatred or a desire for violence.

“The images that we reenact over and over again have absolutely nothing to do with our personal sexuality. I would say that what's shown is basically -- it's not revolutionary, it’s not different, it’s the same old, same old, it’s women in uncomfortable positions pretending they feel good, and what's revolutionary about that? What's liberating about that?” - Porn actress Sarah-Katherine, interviewed by Chyng Sun

I believe that much (perhaps all) of porn is harmful, dehumanizing to all humans, counter intuitive, contrary to evolution of the species; false, misleading, a lie, exploitative of humans and animals, destructive, cruel and unjustifiable.