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The Forum > Article Comments > Prejudiced pundits fuss over sharia > Comments

Prejudiced pundits fuss over sharia : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 15/2/2008

The debate raging over the Archbishop of Canterbury's reported comments on sharia law has failed to address what sharia really means.

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What people seem to be forgetting here is that Islam is not just a personal religion, it is also a political movement intent on imposing its law and regulations on the the whole world. If you doubt what I say, there are many examples on You-tube and other internet web sites of Muslims actually saying what they want and have decided is to be the fate of the west. What is more, it is all contained in the Koran, including their modus operandi.
We would be stupid to ignore what they are saying, thinking "it couldn't happen here" etc.
They have already announced their intentions and they started many years ago trying to implement their agenda. Well before 9/11.
The Archbishop's comments are really stupid. You can't have just a "little bit of Sharia"- as soon as the principle is accepted, the Muslims will push for more and more.
I really hope that the tolerant easy going people in the west will not let down their guard and allow the Islamic takeover, but due to the number of apologists for them in this forum and others, I fear that they will win.
Unfortunately things will have to get a lot worse and the proportion of Islamics in Europe will have to get bigger before the average westerner will start to wake up. By then it may be too late, if it is not already.
Appeasement will not help against such an implacable and determined enemy. When will westerners get a back bone, and unequivocally state "no more"?
Posted by Froggie, Saturday, 16 February 2008 8:42:00 PM
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Bless you Foxy :)

"But then I suppose I'm looking at things from a 'Western' perspective.
And as I've often been accused - through "rose-coloured" glasses.
But, isn't listening and learning - better than ranting and raving?"

Does it occur to you that some of us have:

Listened...
Learned...
Researched..
Tested..
Weighed up...
Observed...

then the shock was so much that it triggered 'ranting and raving' :)

Not all 'rants' start out that way.

I have 2 agree though with you.. about looking at things from a Western perspective..I'd even say 'secular'....

When you or I or we, don't have any ideology which calls us to 'conquer the world'.. we tend to project such tame approaches to life onto those we don't understand.

I guess there were many Jews who would have given a positive spin to Mein Kampf had they read it b4 the gas chambers.

The only thing between 'words in a book' and mass graves is sometimes just a bit of....time.

While not wishing (this time) to overstate the case.. let's just say there are some things to be concerned about.

Most of us see 'accomodation and tolerance' in Williams call, but the thing is... part of actually learning about Sharia is realizing its a package deal.. it goes with the Muslim territory.

Haad this.. or haram that.. or halal something else.. its all 'Sharia' and if one Country does and another doesn't enforce the total package, it doesn't really alter the package itself. Sharia is linked directly to Islam.. and to Mohammad.. and to the warlike history and doctrines of this rather large cult.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 16 February 2008 10:51:43 PM
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The sharia issue is just another example of the Muslim capacity for self-deception that exceeds all credibility. Here is an example: I recently posted to a WashingtonPost article Bloody Ritual, Modern Meaning on “the Advance of Islam” about moderate Muslims changing Islam (yeah ,right).
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/islamsadvance/2008/01/ashura.html#comments

It was a story about the Ashura ritual as practiced by shia Muslims. The author says that the Ashura is a “test of love and devotion.” After reading the comments and checking other Muslims sites I noticed that most Muslims had no actual idea of the story of the Ashura and Karbala.

So I posted a short history of the Ashura, about the first 50 years of Islam and the events leading up to that tragic battle (and then reposted a correction) almost 1400 years ago. So then a Muslim informs me that it wasn’t Muslims that killed Hussein, the hero of the story. Oh? So who did it? The facts are that the Ashura was the climax of 50 years of hate and fighting among Mohammads household and heirs during the ‘golden era’ of expansion (ie, killing and conquering infidels) under the four righteous caliphs. The fact that this era was marked by violence as Aisha (Mo’s wife) and her family fought Fatima (Mo’s daughter) and Ali (Mo’s cousin) for power and riches is lost on Muslims. After many complicated disputes over many decades, Hussein and his army (Ali and Fatima’s son) tried to regain power against the larger army of Yazid (Aisha’s group). At the end of the day the head of Hussein ( Mohammads grandson) and even infant greatgrandson were carried away in bags by the victorious MUSLIM army. Oh yes, 3 of the 4 Righteous caliphs were murdered by Muslims. The events are fairly clear, but Muslims use words like sacrifice, martyr, and purity of Islam when describing the battle and blame it on the “enemies of Islam,” of course.

When we say that sharia is bad and point to its results, Muslims tell us we are ignorant or tell us it is only for Muslims (not true!)

to be continued!
Posted by kactuz, Sunday, 17 February 2008 7:18:17 AM
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What I am trying to say is that facts mean nothing to Muslims. Islam is perfect, therefore any criticism of Islam is either (insert excuses here) or must be silenced. Even when Muslims kill each other it is the work of evil infidels. There is no end to the ignorance, excuses, omissions, distortions and lies when it comes to Muslims and Islam. Thus, when a Muslim hears criticism of Islam (as in the case of Irfan and sharia here), because it can only be the result of “gross ignorance and prejudice."

The hate and violence in the Quran mean nothing to Muslims. Take this verse from the book of Plunder
http://islamawakened.org/quran/8/67/default.htm.
Notice there are 15 translations. As I understand it is says that “to be a real prophet (like Mohammad) you must capture/enslave people and do a lot of killing/tyranny on Earth. Man wants the good things, but Allah wants the end (of life). Allah is really smart.”.

The hate and violence in the hadith, the Islamic traditions about the life of Mohammad. also mean nothing. Muslim always have an excuses To help them I have written a page on things they can http://www.kactuzkid.com/blame.html

I was reading this week one of the stories in the traditions about a woman being pulled apart by camels as punishment and Mohammad taking her daughter. Do the thousands of pages full of morally repugnant stories bother Muslims? Not at all! They consider him to be a great moral example to be followed.

Look at current events. Muslims have been rioting in Denmark for 5 days (burning schools!). Look at Muslim actions all over the world. Do Muslims ever ask themselves why it is always Muslims? No need. It is always the fault of others (see page above)s. Remember Islam is perfect.

Once again, I am saying that the situation is probably hopeless. Muslims, all Muslims, are either ignorant or dishonest about Islam (except for the radicals). They want power and special privileges and to hell with our freedoms and us.
http://www.kactuzkid.com/liberty.html

The future will not be nice. I blame Islam.

Kactuz
Posted by kactuz, Sunday, 17 February 2008 7:22:57 AM
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Irfan wrote:

"Given that our imams cannot even agree on such simple liturgical issues, one can hardly expect them to provide much guidance on the implementation of sharia in a Western country. With that in mind, I feel I can confidently predict we won't be seeing a sharia state on either side of the Tasman at anytime before the next ice age."

And for that let us be truly thankful.

However I would prefer a more robust defence against sharia than inept mullahs.

Then again with judges like Sarah Bradley we already have something that is arguably worse than sharia.

See:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23215930-2,00.html

Impeach Judge Bradley now!
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Sunday, 17 February 2008 8:08:38 AM
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Thomas Jefferson said:

*The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.*

Tertullian (early Church father) said

"We multiply whenever we are mown down by you; the blood of Christians is seed"

Personally.... I'd prefer to avoid EITHER scenario. If we ever arrive at the point where the only recourse of freedom is the blood of patriots to dethrone a tryrant... we have only ourslves to blame.

WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY... which means.. that what happens.. does so because WE, "the people" allow it or vote for it.

Understand this...and you will understand all that I write.

The Christians grew, in spite of persecution.... the Gospel triumphed over Rome...without a shot being fired.

Sharia law.. in principle, does not allow the Gospel to be preached or promoted. A 'little bit' of Sharia law, is not an accomodation...it is a threat.

I've never in all my years of reading seen any social group which is ultimately satisfied with just a 'little' bit of their agenda.

ALL History teaches against that idea.
ALL common sense cries out against that idea.
Current events testify against that idea. (Danish riots A-GAIN..toDAY)

The classic example is the Gay lobby. "Oh..we just want to it decriminalized"

Then..... "Now we want same rights of marraige, adoption..IVF and we also want your children to be educated that being sexually devient is 'normal'".

Farrrr better we fight these things out now..using nothing more harmful than 'words'... than things get to the point where the blood of patriots must be spilt.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 17 February 2008 1:35:47 PM
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