Webby
Your assertion that atheists and agnostics put forward "nonsense about unbridled freedom" is very insulting.
Most atheists and agnostics are very moral people, and they are so, not because they are afraid of being condemned to hell, but because it is the right thing to do.
They are probably more moral than many religionists in that sense.

Dear Froggie

Your own post is in itself just another tired, worn out example of reverse prejudice against the majority of people who beleive in God. It is not an assertion but an observable fact in legal systems throughout the Western World, our universities, social instiutions, education, parenting etc- that morals and ethics without God are not alwaysmoral or ethical at all. Atheists and agnotics are a mixed bunch, as are religious, however the record of totalitarians shows that atheists and agnostics are in the majority of 20th century evils as well as preceding centuries. Going one step further,many supposed athesits and agnotics are not REALLY athesits or agnostics at all but are just wishing to follow their own wills to do evil agaisnt their fellow man. Only total ignorance excuses from Hell. Fer of Hell is not the best of motices to do good but it is still a good and valid motice according to the Scriptures and Church teachings; the surpreme and best motice ie love of God and fear at offending such an infinitely good and loving God in Christ is what we should aim for through prayerful living. However the baser motives , having been put to Church Councils now form part of teaching to include even the imperfect motives of pure fear of Hell so as to not committ evil. But I myself prefer the perfect motivation of loving God for His own sake in light of what He did for us on Calvary.
Froggie mate, your last paragraph is just a way of avoiding taking up and praying for an increase in Divine and Catholic Faith in your life. Do you really think that religious people have to slink away at such assertions and bow to this mantra? Come on mate.

Webby Christians are also slaves , slaves to superstition. The fact is you have never heard god , touched god , never met god , never read anything written by god , never read anything written by somebody who has seen god, you have never seen god either, God has never spoken , god has never done anything, god is your imagination , your fantasy , your superstition , what you say of god is what you say , not what god is , no you no more of a god than you know of the contents of page 32 of my diary , all you say and think of god is your invention. You are not alone , Moslems too are people who live in complete denial of reality and truth just as you do , as anybody who believes in god. God reflects your prejudices, your lack of understanding of morality , your ignorances , God is your slave , he does only what you say he does. You can accuse the world from your tower of blindness as Moslems and Hindus do to you, but the sum of it all is you and every person who pushes god is certainly wrong and you and every god believer does not have a born right to push their superstition.

Dear West, So let me get this right. Slavery to God is not the message of the Scriptures. 'Superstitio' is from the Latin and means false worship. The Catholic Mass and the Mass of the Orthodox is true worship as it was authorised by Jesus in His Divine Person when He walked amongst mankind. His chosen Apostles followed what Jesus did at the Last Supper and that is how we have the Mass today; it is Calvary made present at each Mass and the structure follows elements from the Judaic worship too which the Apostles were raised in. Jesus is the only founder of a religion who has claimed to be God and has fulfilled all the prophecies and confirmed by His words, deeds and especially miracles who He is. Jesus said that He no longer calls us servants but friends; no mention of slavery. Fact is I have heard God through the Scriptures and through the Catholic Church which is the true and one and only Church founded by Jesus who is Divine.
All Catholics meet God in prayer, in all of the sacraments especially Holy Eucharist at every Mass. Jesus died for all of us as we are sinners when He died upon the Cross, He rose from teh dead and we are reminded in the Last Supper that in the Eucharist He is even MORE intimate with us, and with you, if you want Him, by receiving Hm worthily after making a confession of sins and then going to Mass. You can go to Mass each day in the suburbs, the city. Every Catholic church parish is another Bethlehem ( House of Bread) in which we receive Our Lord Himself- in His RISEB and Glofified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Far surpasses even visting the geograhpical Bethlehem itself. Why go tour when you can be with God anytime by going to Mass and participating fully ?!