Goodthief,

<<“Need to” isn’t any more useful than “want to”.>>

Yes it is. Because needs are more important than wants.

<<I’m still waiting for an evolutionist to tell my why it “should” happen...>>

For the sake of Survival.

<<...a reason why the human race is worth preserving.>>

Since you are the only one who is asserting that there actually has to be 'reason' why the human race is worth preserving, then it is you in which the burden of proof is on.

<<...but at least you’ll have a basis.>>

A basis has already been given to you by many here, you're just shutting it out with the assumption that there has to be a divine reasoning to it.

Again, if you're not willing to accept the logical answers you're being given by others, and if you want to insist that there is a deeper meaning to it all, then the burden of proof is on you.

<<Meanwhile, to speak of the “spark” is only lazy if there’s no God.>>

I didn't say speaking of the spark was lazy. I said that explaining it with God is lazy.

Do you remember the old saying that polite dinner conversation should not include politics or religion. :)

Passions certainly do get aroused - it is such a divisive issue, you can see why SOME wars are inflamed by religious differences even though the root cause may be more to do with shortsighted and inequitable foreign and economic policy.

Perhaps the important thing is whatever your own personal beliefs is how we behave in the world,how we treat others, how fair we are - it is the acts of kindness or compassion and the difference those acts make which really matter.

Not everyone thinks the same - even the sceptics within the various religions do not agree on many of the fundamentals. In Australia we are luckier than some, we can respect the differences and still co-exist albeit with a few rocky moments now and again.

*But this doesn’t mean we “should” survive. I have a reason for saying we should.*

Goodthief, your reason is about as valid as the kid who believes
in Santa, as then he will get some presents. It might make you
feel better and how you feel clearly matters, but that does not mean
its true. Big difference!

As for the alleged god loving you, clearly he does not give a
rats arse :) For if you were a starving spina bifida baby for
instance, or one of millions suffering through no fault of their
own, all this due to your God's creation, when he could have
created a world without so much suffering, if he has the power
that you claim, then you might think again.

But I concede that belief and hope make people feel better and
assist in regulating their brain chemistry, reducing anxiety etc.
Ok fair enough. Thats why it makes sense that virtually every
tribe ever discovered, invented some kind of god or gods. As
we evolved to become smarter, we also became more curious and
more anxious. Homeostasis of brain chemistry matters when it
comes to survival.

As to your "divine spark", given that we can show that various
primates cooperate within their tribes, share food, display empathy
etc, clearly they copped a bit of spark too!

Great article. Some interesting and scary links. Fractelle, love yours, jpw2040, yours scared the bejesus out of me.

Pelican, religion, politics and sex are the only really interesting topics to talk about :)

Say you and your partner came home from a night out. You noticed that your bedroom door was opened. The windows facing the garden were opened wide. The drawers of the wardrobe were partially drawn and it was obvious the condition of the room was not what it was when you left home.

Most of us would not have hesitated to report to the police that a break-in took place. However, AJ Philips the ‘LOGICAL’ evolutionist, would have attributed the opened windows it to the strong wind and, an animal must have come into the room to mess it up.

Evolution is a hypothesis. It is not scientific, it is a speculation about our beginning as much as a belief that an intelligent being made this world. If you are a consistent evolutionist you would be glad that the Nazis killed six-million Jews, the genocide in Dafur and ethnic cleansing in Kosovo took place because you are witnessing the evolution of a superior race or culture.

You would also be glad that they hang homosexuals and lesbians in Islamic countries because the cardinal principle of evolution, survival of the species is being threatened by such a life-style. If same sex marriage is the norm, human-kind would soon be extinct

In the print edition of yesterday’s Sydney Morning Herald there’s an edited version of this essay by Stephen Pinker. Anyone who’s read it in the Herald will profit by reading the original version – it’s much better:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?pagewanted=all

Pinker argues that just as it is possible that we have a language instinct, there is evidence for the existence of a moral instinct: “A list of human universals collected by the anthropologist Donald E. Brown [ http://condor.depaul.edu/~mfiddler/hyphen/humunivers.htm ] includes many moral concepts and emotions, including a distinction between right and wrong; empathy; fairness; admiration of generosity; rights and obligations; proscription of murder, rape and other forms of violence; redress of wrongs; sanctions for wrongs against the community; shame; and taboos.”

He describes some ingenious pieces of research which reveal much about how people from all kinds of backgrounds, cultures and socio-economic groups have many shared “moral” values.

Not that these things are fixed: “many behaviors have been amoralized, switched from moral failings to lifestyle choices. They include divorce, illegitimacy, being a working mother, marijuana use and homosexuality. Many afflictions have been reassigned from payback for bad choices to unlucky misfortunes. There used to be people called “bums” and “tramps”; today they are “homeless.” Drug addiction is a “disease”; syphilis was rebranded from the price of wanton behavior to a “sexually transmitted disease” and more recently a “sexually transmitted infection.”

This wave of amoralization has led the cultural right to lament that morality itself is under assault, as we see in the group that anointed itself the Moral Majority.”

TBC