The war of civilisations is going on now, right now.

Diversity the road for the jihad muslim diaspora to enter the West thats what this discussion should be about.

Foxy, your good intentions are well intended but naive, dont let Islam fool you just as there are many good people of all religions and beliefs, Islam controls every tenet of life and will be obeyed. Even the good among the Umar are controlled internally by the early brainwashing and familial ties.

I hope you are in good spirits and strong.
Scotty

Irfan writes:

"... Burke realises the enormous variety of Islams (as opposed to a single Islam) that exists."

Here is the WEAKNESS in this analysis.

If Burke had gone to Nazi Germany in 1935 he could have written with equal veracity:

"...Burke realises the enormous variety of National Socialisms (as opposed to a single National Socialism) that exists."

It would have been absolutely true. It is hard for us today to understand that many Germans were attracted to "National Socialism" because they thought of it as a benign form of socialism with a strong environmental agenda.

If Burke had spent "quality time" with Germans in 1935 he would have discovered that most of them did not want war, wanted a decent life for themselves and their families and were mainly courteous, hospitable and DECENT people.

Decent people who when the chips were down mainly did what they regarded as their "patriotic duty."

And that is where we have the problem. Contemporary mainstream Islam, the Islam that is propagated by most Muslim leaders in 2008, is an aggressive, imperialistic, totalitarian ideology.

That does not mean that every Muslim is a totalitarian. Most are in denial about the nature of Islam as most Germans were about the true nature of National Socialism or most Communists about the nature of the Soviet Union.

But there is a difference between Islam in 2008 and National Socialism in the 1930s. German refugees from the Nazis never engaged in terrorist acts against the countries that gave them refuge.

Countries like Britain had their home grown Fascists like Moseley but there was no stream of Nazi trained ideologues going to Britain trying to recruit people to the cause.

Most Muslims I have encountered are much better than their religion. I have never met Irfan but I am sure he is a good and honest person.

But, in the end, I would not trust a Muslim any more than I would have trusted a Nazi in the 1930s or a Communist for that matter.

I am judging Muslims not by race but by professed beliefs.

Dear ASymeonakis,

If most Muslims are inherently good - and they are - this is not because of their beliefs but in spite of them. There are plenty of exhortations in the Koran to despise, plunder and kill non-believers, just as there are in the Bible and the Torah. Sensible people ignore some of these. Intelligent people ignore most of them. Enlightened people ignore all of them and manage their own lives with reason and compassion rather than paying even lip service to the made-up myths of a savage tribal culture.

Every sincere Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or Jew is a threat to civilisation because by practicing religion they are showing their readiness to believe whatever irrational nonsense is fed to them by their priests. You might be the sweetest person in the world, but if you can't say 'get real, you fool' to a homicidal Archbishop, Rabbi, priest or Imam then I don't want you in my neighbourhood, thanks. Drop the religion and then I know that I can trust you.

Dear Scotty,

Thanks for your good wishes. I admit that I tend to look at things
through "rose-coloured glasses." And possibly I am rather naive.

One of the things that I like about being part of this Forum though is, you get such a wide range of opinions. I find it constructive to get a different point of view on a wide range of subjects.

You taught me to stop being so "self-righteous." It's a bad habit that
I'm still trying to overcome. (smile). (As well as being judgemental).
But - as they say - life is a learning process - and you die
ignorant.

Good article Irfan.

Although I believe Muslim to Muslim diversity and dialogue is still into who is right and who is wrong. We are still not doing enough in terms of what contribution can Muslim/ Islamic culture can contribute to modern civilisation. Once upon a time in the the 9th century most new inventions in the fields of medicine, chemistry and science had a Muslim behind it. Not sure what happened to us since then.

Peace,

Fellow_Human wrote:

"…what contribution can Muslim/ Islamic culture can contribute to modern civilisation. …in the the 9th century most new inventions in the fields of medicine, chemistry and science had a Muslim behind it. ….what happened to us since then."

Islam happened.

It matters not what is your background. In order to make contributions to science you need to be part of the SCIENTIFIC CULTURE. The great Jewish scientists since 1900, from Einstein to Andrew Fire draw their inspiration from their fellow scientists, not from their fellow Jews. This is quite clear from Einstein's notes. He was more interested in Galielo, Newton and Maxwell than, say, the Jewish sages Maimonides and Rashi.

Outside the Arab world, scientists of Muslim background understand this. It's not Islam. It's science. There is no such thing as "Islamic Science."

However the Arab world is beginning to wake up. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is funding the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST).

See:

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=105629&d=14&m=1&y=2008&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom

Note that the Saudi thought police (aka as the religion police) will be barred from entering the KAUST. King Abdullah recognises that, if KAUST is to succeed, it must put SCIENCE before Islamic dogma.

Here we come to the nub of the issue. Can you be a great scientist who believes the creator of the universe has the character of a petty 7th century Arabian Warlord and who comes up with statements like this:

9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

You really believe the creator of the universe is going to give a seventh century tribal warlord instructions on when, and under what circumstance, to slaughter an ill-defined group of people called "idolaters?"

And you truly believe someone who takes this claptrap seriously can make a great contribution to science?