“Much hostility seems to come from an entrenched, bigoted, xenophobic, cluster of citizens professing an Anglo-Celtic culture, heritage and egalitarianism, who are incapable of accepting fellow beings from other nations, or our own Indigenous people for that matter, as equals.”

Does it, now? So why is it, particularly on OLO, that we hear most from the non-conservative lefties who hold different views like those of Mr. Nance here?

These “arrogant attitudes” refer, of course, to anyone with views different from those of the author. Left wing twits are never arrogant. They are always right.

And, according to this comical character, things would have been so much better if nations other than Britain had colonised Australia. Have look at the list. Dwell on what the kind hearted Spanish did to the aboriginals of their colonies.

Ian Nance’s geography and environmental knowledge is also hopeless:

“Despite the huge growth in city populations and the attendant problems with infrastructure and transport, there is still a massive amount of room for people, either immigrants or those born here, to settle and develop.”

Two thirds of Australia is uninhabitable, and we do not have the infrastructure, water and power generation to cater for the current population, which is already nearing twice the optimal population for this dry, barren country.

Lastly, this puerile mantra about us all being migrants is totally irrelevant now and in the future. We are over-populated now, and silly slogans are of no help whatsoever.

Leigh:
“And, according to this comical character, things would have been so much better if nations other than Britain had colonised Australia. Have look at the list. Dwell on what the kind hearted Spanish did to the aboriginals of their colonies.”

Well the French nearly got here first, and it might have been a much more interesting, tolerant and accepting country if they did – the food would have been much better too for the first 200 years or so.

“Two thirds of Australia is uninhabitable, and we do not have the infrastructure, water and power generation to cater for the current population, which is already nearing twice the optimal population for this dry, barren country.”

Heard all this before – Sydney is the where the crush is of course – there’s plenty of room outside the cities in case you didn’t know.

If we don’t have the infrastructure and power generation – well, get it, and stop looking after the coal powered options. For a 200 x 200 kms equivalent solar array in sunny central Australia, all of Australia’s, and most of the world’s energy needs can be looked after – and what a great export income for indigenous Australians as well. Why can’t that be done. It can – it’s just that certain people don’t want it to happen. All they give ordinary folks to invest is lovely Telstra!

Water is a problem all over the world – there are short term solutions until if and when global warming is addressed. If it isn’t, well none of us will have too much more to worry about.

“We are over-populated now, and silly slogans are of no help whatsoever.”

A country over-populated with octogenarians in the future more likely.

I suppose, Leigh, considering your sentiments, you wouldn’t be averse to even removing the union jack from the Australian flag, and leaving the rest, which is the real Australian flag. But don't worry if you're uncomfortable with that, future Australians will do it - even if they aren't anglo-celtic.

Population growth should overwhelmongly be Australian born- not via immigration. If you want population growth, then have some babies.

People in this country don't seem to like having babies -they're too busy visiting cafes and whatever else they do.
Except for immigrants that is - some of those groups like to have lots of children - and they will inherit Australia.

Leigh scribbled:
" We are over-populated now, and silly slogans are of no help whatsoever".

Totally agree, let me know if I can help with your passport back to the old country.

As for your comment about the Spanish doing more harm to my people than the British, its totally hypothetic and pathetic.

So ingrained is your bigotry and racism that its eating you alive and you don't even know it.

We don't need your kind here; you're an embarrassment to millions of white, ethnic and Indigenous Australians who do care about each other and this nation's future. And they even care about you. But they aren’t easily fooled.

Get with it Leigh, it’s not too late to become a real Australian.

We would have an extra 80000 babies a year if we did not terminate their lives before they have a say in it. Just be thankful that you survived the slaughter era!

The writer of this article does not make a distinction between perceived and real threats. And like an alchemist he transforms real threats into perceived ones. The Muslim fundamentalist threat is not imaginary but a real one. And as such, it inevitably raises the hackles of hostility of most Australians.

One should give therefore “the good old Aussie finger” to all the shallow cultural and political analysts, like Robert Manne, who are unable to make a serious contribution to the complexities that rise in a society that has a “menagerie” of different cultures in its midst, that ultimately are bound to clash with each other.

http://kotzabasis1australiaagainst.blogspot.co

Mr Nance

You are incorrect when you claim that Australians are:

"incapable of accepting fellow beings from other nations, or our own Indigenous people for that matter, as equals."

Generally, Australians are not averse to any race.

What Australians are averse to are groups or gangs who wander around this nation belting the crap out of innocent bystanders, invading and plundering their property and conducting practices which are deemed cruel or unjust by those who have been raised in a decent manner. Some offenders are of Australian descent, others just happen to be from other lands.

Mutual respect is all that most decent Australians and non-Australians expect.

My new neighbours over the road are Africans. They are the quietest neighbours in the street and probably the most courteous.

"there is still a massive amount of room for people, either immigrants or those born here, to settle and develop."

No Mr Nance...there is not. Clearly you have failed to consider the dire state of Australia's environment.

Whilst Western Australia (my state) has a mere 2 million inhabitants with a land mass exceeding that of other states, it is now deemed one of the planet's 34 environmental hotspots. Many plants, animals and ecological communities are threatened and already 1400 contaminated sites have been officially identified and with the well-overdue new legislation for mandatory reporting, a dramatic increase is predicted for this year.

Urban development is placing significant pressure on the environment and 40% of contaminated sites are identified only during land development. In addition the EPA has conceded that the drastic issue of soil erosion and salinity data for WA is inadequate. Groundwater pollutant plumes have increased in inland and bore water. Fires are having a huge impact on residential areas and pollutant industries are land-grabbing, contaminating air, soil and water and forcing citizens to relocate.

Australia should put a halt to immigration for the time-being until it cleans up its unsustainable environment - an environment already threatening its current inhabitants. These fragile eco systems will not cope with additional pressures from any significant increase in human population.

I would agree with what you say Leigh. I note you have incurred the (feeble) wrath of rainier. He makes the rattle inherent from an empty bucket as it tumbles through the insular cloisters of “academia” (never challenged by a need to earn a real living)..

As a migrant, I take issue with the authors notion that

“Let’s never forget that, excluding indigenes, we are all migrants in this place we call our home.”

I am a “migrant” – which meant I had to prove my “worthiness” before being extended the privilege of settling here (and am now a naturalized citizen and proudly call myself “Australian”, equal with any other citizen, indigene or otherwise),

One of my daughters was born here. she is not a “migrant” by matter of physical fact.

The problem with the authors statement is in perpetuates the perverse, invalid, small minded and squalid notion that because of “race”, certain Australians are distinguishable, classifiable and different to other Australians.

I have consistently held the view that all men are equal and none is more equal than another.

Notions, which support the inherent difference which the author expressed, being simply because of ones race, are not only morally indefensible but were used as justification for the slave trade of centuries past.

I guess, in the parlance of Latham, and to paraphrase him

“the author (along with rainier) are among a conga line of suckholes, on the apologist and appeasement side of Australian society”.

"The good old Aussie finger?" What is that? The Aussie fingerS consists of the "V" for victory sign with the back of the hand facing the offender. What you probably mean is the "Good old, copied from the Yank, finger."

Phoenix 2,

So, you disagree with me. Big deal.

You should get your facts right, though, if you want to take other people to task. You are obviously completely ignorant of Australia’s environment and capacity for population. “Room” has nothing to do with suitability for human occupation.

Even that darling of the left, Tim Flannery, has advised that our population should be no more than 13m.

Ranier,

When you squawk, the only thing I think of is the old Charlie Drake song, “My boomerang won’t come back.”

If the Spanish had arrived here first, they would have made short work of your mob.

Call me a racist as much as you like. I also think that you a racist and an ignorant pig: a total embarrassment to the likes of Noel Pearson.

Col Rouge,

You are living proof that many migrants are more Australian than some of the ‘ockers’ who make fools of themselves here and in society generally. I would swap Ranier and other idiots for people like you any day. The problem is, although they moan and groan about every thing Australian, they just haven’t got the guts to piss off.

Leigh: "The problem is, although they moan and groan about every thing Australian, they just haven’t got the guts to piss off."

By this logic, if anything goes wrong in the country, the people who are willing to speak up and try to fix it, should just piss off.

By this logic, we'd never change anything. Everything would remain stagnant, and our economy would fall to pieces.

By this logic, we'd never be accepting of new developments. We'd be stuck in the pass, because the people who have the guts to "moan and groan" who are also the people who see when something's wrong, would just have to "piss off."

Western nations are built on a foundation of critical appraisal leigh. It's how we developed things like freedom of speech, and averted things like dictatorships.

The line: "you don't like it, leave" is for the weak willed.

I prefer: "you don't like it, fix it."

That's what people who are ACTUALLY devoted to their country do, Leigh.

Besides, whingeing about whingers makes you a hypocrite. Even by saying things like the "piss off" line, you're "moaning and groaning" and doing exactly what you hate.

"entrenched,bigoted,zenophobic cluster of citizens professing an Anglo-Celtic culture"
You stupid 'multiculture'lapdog apologists are so thick you cannot see your own gross racism.
The rest of us can.

Actually Mickijo, you need a new word. Racism = discrimination against a race.

Criticism of a stupid hostile view, well, that's just common sense.

I'm amused by your post though, because I can only see a few logical conclusions you're making there (P.S. Xenophobe is spelt with an X):

1) "entrenched,bigoted,xenophobic cluster of citizens professing an Anglo-Celtic culture" don't exist.

Well, given that there are millions of Australians, I'd say there's no denying that people who behave in this manner exist here. We've seen examples of it on these boards.

2) You're among the "entrenched,bigoted,zenophobic cluster of citizens professing an Anglo-Celtic culture" and you're made at being called out?

Well... you don't have to claim this mantle. You can just have insular views, but that doesn't mean you have to call yourself bigoted.

Maybe you're being too harsh on yourself... unless you are one? I dunno what you're getting at here. Can't we criticise genuine bigoted xenophobes?

Basically... I see someone condemning the people that are bigoted and hate-filled. You're hitting out at that, but unless you're putting your hand up to claim to be one, I don't see why.

And multiculturalists can't be racists. They just have views you don't like. Deal with it. It's a different issue.

The moment you start pretending that discrimination against people with certain views is as bad as discriminating against people of certain races, you're on a losing wicket.

It can't work. People could never disagree about anything.

This is the tactic racists love to use. "Ooh No! They're racists too! They don't like my views! How dare they!"

Bulldust. What crap.
I can disagree with that, but it doesn't make me a racist, it just means I'm disagreeing with someone's view. Just because they don't like being called racist they try to claim a victim mantle, but I won't have a bar of it.

And that ain't racist.

Its always been a different country.
The convict heritage has always been, so it seemed to me, to be the dominate cause of bad attitudes. Many of the people are indeed criminal. Maybe not in their daily physical activities but in their bigotry and small attitudes...in their whinge. This is a bigoted country from top to bottom. We are a common ordinary people with little other in mind than sport, sickies, beer and bagging the oppositon. We uplift country and western singers and motorcycle racers as Australians of the year because thats where the people are in their minds. Brave men like Chen Yonglin come to our land and out of their conscience warn the people about a great spy threat within Australia... and all the federal government does is shunt him off with a new id to some distant dry place, mostly likely, trying to save face because of their own apathy and laziness and incompetance towards national security. That is... one federal government after another. Liberal and labor. No wonder the Amercians tell us no real secrets. The convicts simply cannot be trusted. We are a common people with bad attitudes. A common folk who even now wish to rid themseleves of a wonderful Queen and a connection to something noble with our English heritage... that is far more substantial than the convicts can dream.

AMAZING STUFF...

It looks like the old "If I can't find the real deal to rail against..I'll just INVENT it".. i.e.. I'll craftily build a straw man and apply the profile of that which I love to hate.. then I'll viciously rip into him and destroy him with my articulate argument!

ERRR...

PROFILE

White, AngloCelt, Hates non them, is Xenophobic, Racist, hates Aboriginals.

Hmmmmm Well.. I guess there are a few like that, I don't know how many, but I do know one thing, they only exist in the absense of a strong 'CITIZENSHIP' program which should be promoting inclusion, and acceptance of all people EXCEPT those who hold values and objectives (however benign they may be at the present time) which are aimed at undermining that social/cultural framework which welcomed them.

Just today I was watching "Border Security" where this Chinese drongo spat out sooo many outright bald face lies so he can continue selling his pirate DVDs, acting like the Immigration officer was a complete dill..and then..THEN....he had the gaul to rant about "AAAH this country is multi national blah blah" while they were working out the situation with his FRAUDulently obtained fake passport !

VALUES..is what its all about. Any bloke who is tolerant of strategic racist intolerance which has long term objectives far into the future, needs to look at the rise of the National Socialists.

Australia has values.. inherited from our history, culture and religion.
a) Abandoning those will destroy us.
b) Accepting those who want to help us abandon them, is suicide.

.. and plain stupid.

runner, if you are genuinely concerned (as I am) about reducing the number of abortions in Australia, then I can only assume you hope to see Australia become more like the highly secular and liberal nations Belgium or The Netherlands, where abortions are legally and inexpensively available to all women, but who boast by far the lowest abortion rates in the world.

Boazy: "PROFILE

White, AngloCelt, Hates non them, is Xenophobic, Racist, hates Aboriginals."

That profile would fit many of the more bigoted and prolific participants here at OLO, including good old Boazy if we leave out the bit about hating Aboriginals, to whom his expressed attitude is mostly indifference interspersed with the odd lukewarm platitude.

It's not a 'straw man' when one can readily identify numerous actual examples.

TRTL,

All this lecturing of yours must keep you in a state of constant tension. You just can’t help yourself, can you?

I have always been the main target of your self-righteous pontificating; and, has it made one iota of difference? No!

You appear to be a zealot who thinks he has to try to change everything and everyone. You don’t have much respect for others do you? You are firm in your beliefs, but people with different beliefs don’t have any real conviction, eh? A few words from the sage, TRTL, and they will be panting to be just like him.

You are wasting your time on me. Give yourself a rest.

By the way, be a good chap and stop telling me what I hate. I don’t hate at all

Leigh: " have always been the main target of your self-righteous pontificating; and, has it made one iota of difference? No"

Actually Leigh... I, well, I don't know how to break this to you, but I've been self righteously pontificating on other posters and articles, some even more than you. Sorry. I hope this doesn't mean we can't pontificate together anymore.

As for the rest of your post... wait a minute, you mean to tell me people actually post their opinions on this website!?
You mean, people have opinions that disagree, and sometimes they have the hide to elucidate why?
You mean, people not only put their own arguments forward, but critically appraise those of others?

By gum! How strange! (Just to be absolutely clear, this concept is known as 'sarcasm' which is when you say the opposite of what you mean or feign ignorance in a blatantly obvious manner).

As far as telling you what you hate... actually, no, I sometimes reiterate what you've said, which inevitably, is a comment on how much you hate something or someone, or even wish genocide upon certain age groups.
Constructing false arguments and attibuting them to people is your specialty. I can link to examples if you really want me to, but I suspect you don't.

Leigh is a lost soul with issues, he/she enjoys deriding anybody or anything that is happier than he/she.

Well lets face it, where all a lot happier than Leigh, so come on Leigh join the real people mate! Live life and be happy, your dead a long time!

This white Celtic-Romano-Anglo-Norman immigrant is astounded at the vicious vituperation going on, and suggests the preceding intolerant canting writers really belong in the deep south of the USA. As a migrant, I sincerely hope that none of you are typical Australians.

Gibo,
I enjoyed your post on 26 Jan at 17:39 in which you described us inter alia as" a common people with little other in mind than sport, sickies, beer and bagging the opposition".
Gibo, along with your general comments about our convict culture, I feel that you have the makings of a worthwhile essay on the wide question of our "Australian" nature, and urge you to think about writing one.
Best wishes

Leigh “Col Rouge,

You are living proof that many migrants are more Australian than some of the ‘ockers’ who make fools of themselves here and in society generally. I would swap Ranier and other idiots for people like you any day”

Thank you Leigh, you are very gracious.

I have said before and will recall again, when I arrived at the migration check at Sydney Airport, the migration officer read my visa and said “Ah some of the chosen people”

Some particularly welcome words and something which touched me so profoundly that I have recalled it often over the past 25 years since they were said.

Unlike some here who think they are entitled, by something akin to the divine right of kings (except we just replace the word “king” with “aborigine”) I do not expect anyone else to roll over and support me. All I have ever asked for is the right to make my own way in life and earn my own living deploying the skills I have acquired through my personal effort.

Some posters here obviously do not share that value.

They seem to lack what is often called “work ethic” and expect society to tend to their every need simply because, someone in their distant family past, happened to be here before Captain Cook.

As you pointed out, the Spanish forces under Pizzaro and the “natives” was a different experience to that administered by Captain Cook and his colleagues.

One is tempted to consider the nature of the Spanish character versus the British character or maybe Protestant values versus what passes for “values” in the Catholic church.

I note no one has challenged my comments regarding the mindset which differentiates between people based on race is the same as the values which supported the salve trade of old.

However, I do not assume that the bigots who claim some “special rights based on racial distinction” above those of all other Australians to actually agree with me.

They will pretend I never said it and merely whine out their mantra of racial entitlement on another thread