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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia: where too much wind will never be enough > Comments

Australia: where too much wind will never be enough : Comments

By Tom Quirk, published 22/1/2008

Wind power is the front runner for renewable energy but it will never provide sufficient energy for our base load needs.

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Many inferences can be drawn from this article; that we should quickly expand windpower to 20%, that nuclear or 'clean coal' must replace dirty coal and drought ravaged hydro, that electricity demand should be time matched to supply, that gas should not be used for baseload power. Perhaps some combination of the above. It doesn't look like there will be any imminent breakthroughs in cheap electricity storage at the megawatt-hour level. On top of that the Rudd government is supposed to introduce carbon trading by 2011 though I suspect it won't be too onerous. Meanwhile coal fired baseload will continue unchecked but electricity bills will go up, the glaciers will keep melting and we will watch with interest how other countries fail to deal with the same issues. Expect a muddle with no satisfactory way out.
Posted by Taswegian, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 8:50:44 AM
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People forget the magic words, "energy efficiency".

Add wind power and massive solar farms across our drought-ravged continent to reducing our unnecessarily wasteful use of electricity and what have you got? A damn good chance that we can manage with alternative and even possibly non-nuclear power sources. Pay our cockies to build solar energy farms instead of trying to grow sheep and cows on semi-arid desert. Would solve a number of problems, even if expensive at the outset.
Posted by HenryVIII, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 10:05:16 AM
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And a PS. Whilst wind power is of course intermittent, as is sunlight, the electricity generated can be stored using several different technologies including the simple one of pumping water back up hill.
Posted by HenryVIII, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 10:14:51 AM
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I have read the paper by Mark Diesendorf and his 12 fallacies. No where does he make mention of the costs involved in transmitting power over long distances. I sure the cost of building and maintaining lines will not be negligible.

More interesting to me is the physics of electricity transmission. I have not found a suitable “elementary text” on this subject, so I will make a few observations and would be very grateful for corrections and amplifications.

• AC transmission is subject to radiation and resistance losses. While high voltage DC transmission will only suffer resistance losses.#
• The conversion from high to low voltages (AC only) by transformers or conversion from AC to DC will lead to a loss of electrical energy. Indeed according to the second law of thermo-dynamics all energy conversions are subject to loss.
• Wind mill turbines generate AC power. Conversion to DC for purposes of transmission and re-conversion to AC for use must be wasteful of energy.
• I understand that when a small wind generator feeds into the grid there is a superposition of wave forms. That is the final wave form is the sum of all the multiple inputs.
• I would be interested to learn that if the frequency of the various inputs differs by small amounts is there the equivalent of “beats’ developing in the system.
• Alternative if the input frequencies match anddepending on the resistive properties of the system, is there the equivalence of resonance.
>>>>>>>>>
# An article in Scientific American talks about a new direct-current power transmission backbone. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan
Posted by anti-green, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 11:24:23 AM
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One factor in the "sustainable energy sources are intermitant" debate that is neglected is that it is possible to produce a link between power availability and power consumption.

That is, you create a system where the price the consumer pays per kWhr of electricity varies depending on the availability.

The simplest way I can explain it is give an example of how it might work.

You have a solar water heater with electric backup. You have set your heater to use power from the grid when the price is below 15c/kWhr and the temperature of the water in the heater is below 55 degrees. Now a controller on your heater (or in your meter box, wherever) switches on your water heater booster when power in the mains is plentiful and the price drops below 15c/kWhr. If you feel like gambling a bit more and don't mind the occasional cool shower you might set the switch-on-price at 13c/kWhr and save some money.

Other systems that could go on or off line depending on the price of power are things like desalination plants and electric car rechargers.
Posted by Dave Clarke, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 11:37:14 AM
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I believe there is renewable energy at hand if only government & industry took the initiative.There is wind ,solar and wave power all with proven technology as well as gas, so what's the hold up.With wave power it can also provide potable water,the government look to the cost but the longer they leave it the more expensive it will become.Why keep selling off the bulk of gas instead of planning for the future our state,it's an extremely sad state of affairs when a state is rich in gas but can't supply its on domestic needs.
Posted by Dr Who, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 1:12:07 PM
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