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The Forum > Article Comments > John Howard - his journey and his legacy > Comments

John Howard - his journey and his legacy : Comments

By Leon Bertrand, published 7/12/2007

John Howard's ambitions were thwarted many times. His story is one of political courage, patience and determination.

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CJ, you are the one with the reading disability. I know what you said. I said that you SHOULD be embarrassed on your own account, not embarrassed by the actions of others over whom you have no control.

I will own up to my arithmetical error - I added a few to many zeros -something I don't think we'll ever find you doing (admitting a mistake) because you are convinced that you are right about everything. How long will it take you to forgive me for my mistake?

Being embarrassed by someone else, and being 'ashamed to be Australian' just because of our politicians or some policy or other the 'embarrassee" or the "ashamed whinger" doesn't like, is pretty pathetic, and is it is part of the self-loathing package.

Self-loathing, like many ailments, is not always apparent to the suffer. You certainly have it, old fellow. Space doesn't permit me to describe your condition; Wikipedia has a simple, layman's description of it if you can bear to have a look.

While I was very proud of Howard's handling of the Tampa (will it never be let rest) incident, I totally agree with your opinion
of Joh who was, I think, the very lowest of low animal life. I did not feel any embarrassment, though.

You will probably enjoy a remission of your self-loathing now that you have a young, fresh ALP Government to heap praise on. Enjoy it while you can. I hope you won't be too broken up when they show their true colours.
Posted by Leigh, Sunday, 9 December 2007 11:40:46 AM
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Actually Leigh, you're wrong. I felt embarrassment as a Queenslander when Joh was Premier and as an Australian when Howard was PM because I was a member of the electorates that repeatedly returned them to power. The occasions upon which I felt that sense of embarrassment were when I travelled interstate or overseas and people would make comments that were critical of the reprehensible actions and policies of those governments.

It was like being embarrassed at having an uncle who is a racist, uncouth oaf, or a cousin who expresses hateful ideas like yours. One isn't responsible for them but one is tainted by association.

You say I SHOULD be embarrassed on my own account, but you don't say what for. I don't make glaring arithmetic errors, nor do I post hateful rants, such as when you asserted that an entire generation of Australians should have been smothered at birth.

I also reject your accusation of self-loathing. In general, I quite like myself and my country. Out of interest, I looked up the Wikipedia entry that you suggested - and I note that it says that such accusations "are often used as an ad hominem attack".

That would be consistent with comments from someone who almost never posts anything positive or containing any substantive argument. Usually when I read your posts I'm reminded of the Victor Meldrew character from the BBC comedy "One Foot in the Grave".

I don't like to think where the other foot is.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Sunday, 9 December 2007 1:16:37 PM
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Belly, you might be right. But here's a scenario for you.

Rudd exploited a sense of unease in Aus with things economic and emphasised the worst of our economy. He created expectations that he would do something about petrol, food and housing costs and that rising interest rates were 'somehow' Howards fault.

Were he to be seen to be ineffectual on these issues and an opposition exploit this he could be in trouble.

Or another one Belly. There is a modest wages breakout in sectors suffering skills shortages, followed by a couple more interest rate rises to cool things down. All it takes is 2 or 3 in a hundred to change their minds next time.

Or (just for my own amusement); Rudd believes,as so many of his supporters insisted recently that visiting strip clubs whilst OS as our representative and drinking to the point where his memory fails is acceptable behaviour.....just joking
Posted by palimpsest, Sunday, 9 December 2007 1:30:03 PM
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I do not think your view of why Howard lost is even near true.
And without doubt your idea of how Rudd will go is wrong.
Still to find blindness and failure to understand the defeat is still the way most conservatives handle it is rewarding.
Months yes months before that great day, was it only two weeks yesterday?
I told of the result and the way the loss would be handled, not very well.
Keys to remember Crean reborn though he may be was no leader, Latham the product of Creans spite was not either.
Howard in beating them got no racing form a sprinter flogging a stayer over a sprint trip.
Howard was unloved but the best of two poor choices.
That last term was even worse than the Tampa one!
A list would be endless short bottom Johny ran away from his voters his party and reality.
And he put in the saddle a man who will never do that, the ALP is not giving own goals away.
Right now if the next election is not a double dissolution the result will be a swing to Labor of no less than 2%
If refusal to understand the electorate brings both house to a full election? 5% to Labor and both house in ALP hands.
America will by next years end reject its governing party and the world will have swung away from super conservative governments.
NSW Liberal right? not long to rule maybe this state after that starts swing back to conservatives after all even I do not think I could vote for this rabble or leader again.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 9 December 2007 4:18:01 PM
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CJ Morgan,

What a surprise! I'm still wrong and you, as always, are completely right. Jolly good luck to you. It must be so good to be you.

You deny your self-loathing. You deny that you have any reason to be embarrassed. No matter what anyone who disagrees with you says, you will continue to believe that you are right and they are wrong.

I give in. You win. I'm a complete arsehole, and you are Mr. Wonderful. Satisfied?

Where would you like the prize sent?
Posted by Leigh, Sunday, 9 December 2007 4:35:21 PM
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gosh, just joining in this forum I am reading of the same Dark Cloud that surely has lifted

Let us all rejoice that Howard is no more and be a little lighter hearted, starting with http://www.ridrodent.com

as it says:

Like move over Andy Warhol [and Pro Hart], this is not just Pop Art but Pop Art with a Neo Con PC attitude, going forward
Posted by Divorce Doctor, Sunday, 9 December 2007 4:48:23 PM
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