"How refreshing to see racists coming out and openly identifying themselves. As a Septic, you'd expect Liz to be full of faeces."

Nice logic there, boy. I'm impressed.

Rob,

You have my sympathies, but from what I gather, the situation is too far gone for nice gestures. An industry based on an orthodoxy feeds on itself. Every Australian university has an "indigenous studies" department. These places are, essentially, factories for guilt-mongering and worse. The few Aboriginal kids who make it through a university course don't study the hard sciences or (heaven forbid) Dead White Euro Culture. They study this garbage.

For those of you who criticize me for contributing because I don't know any Aborigines, well, isn't that true of most white Australians? You can learn a lot on the 'net. For example, I learned that there are prosperous, vibrant country towns with diverse economies, such as Tamworth, with significant Aboriginal minorities. And the Aborigines in these towns have nothing to do with the mainstream economies - not even as entry level or menial workers!! While, on the other hand, these same unemployed kids get a full course of "Koori culture", complete with face-painting, "traditional dancing" (learned from a DVD?) and the study of dead, useless Aboriginal languages. This baffles me. Please explain. Perhaps I am getting the wrong idea from the 'net, in which case I would welcome clarification.

Liz the yank says "dead useless Aboriginal Languages".

I don't know why you would say that apart from unintentionally displaying a lack of knowledge , which is understandable, or more likely making mischief.

It IS a BIG problem that we know so little about them and their content. Translators are hard to find .

I learnt French at school and considered it useless, although I then appreciated their uniqueness. However I went overseas to where it was spoken and then found it very handy as a tool to communicate in a friendly and usefull way .

I would love to be able to speak a Central Australian language and use it with the locals to speak to them as equals and learn about their culture.

I will go one more and say that if "I was PM" the learning of a working Aboriginal Language and Culture would be compulsory in early and late school years .

This would be a positive attack on the racism that exists here and would be both practical and symbolic for Aboriginal and other Australians .

Lizz, you are making very sweeping generalisations there. Given that I know Tamworth reasonably well. Yes, there are reasonable proportions of disengaged minorities there. But to lump them all in the same category is extremely racist. There are plenty of aboriginal people in jobs, with decent housing, kids that go to school and a bright future. Being aboriginal doesnt = failure. Most white (or other-coloured) Aussie's might know very little about the problems within aboriginal society, other than what they glean from the Net and the media (both potentially wrong and biased anyway). Try listening to some of those that have lived in communities where there are aboriginal majorities (hint, there are some that have been posting on this thread and others), as well as the pretty well educated aboriginal posters on this forum.

Fact of the matter is that there were some pretty horrible things done to group of aboriginies in the past, a lot of which has resulted in the poor state of affairs today. Whether I feel the need/obligation to apologise or not, something needs to be done to bring a reasonable standard of living to these people IF THEY WANT IT. This is why I always advocate an individual approach, rather than generalist policy.

The problem is that there are no easy answers, and those that think there are, are idiots. Progress also takes time, so no-one should expect any outcomes from the Howard NT intervention for at least 5 years. If after 5 years there are no positive outcomes (or the negatices outweigh them), then the program could probably be said to have failed. Expecting significant change overnight is stupidity and amounts to the politicial point-scoring that those who indulge in this accuse Howard of. (PS I'm not supporting Howard or his party per se, but it annoys me to see the pot calling the kettle black)

Hey Col - I'm really a fun guy when you get to know me :)

What was it I said about us not needing the uninformed pontifications of an increasingly obviously racist American when we have enough of our own to deal with? Col proves my point exactly.

Perhaps Col could consider moving to Alabama or wherever it is that lizz posts from - I believe there's lots of jails there (mostly full of 'black people') and plenty of beans to count!

I'm from Massachusetts. Gotcha.

"I would love to be able to speak a Central Australian language..."

Then go learn one. What's stopping you?

By dead useless languages I didn't mean the ones that are still spoken. Aborigines who still speak their language should be given bilingual education where possible. (But if they want to go any further than primary grades, English is the language of learning.)

Dead languages are just that: dead. There are primary grade language programs in NSW whose purpose is to improve Aboriginal self-esteem and hence learning. They don't work.

"if "I was PM" the learning of a working Aboriginal Language and Culture would be compulsory in early and late school years ."

Do you have children? Why don't you send them to Alice Springs for early years Aboriginal language instruction?

Compulsory teaching of an Aboriginal language would take away valuable time from crucial subjects like math and science. Australia runs a prestigious Maths competition - the top scorers are now mostly of Asian origin, or come from select secondary schools in NSW or Victoria. Compulsory teaching of Aboriginal languages would force the parents of all high IQ children to put them in private schools.

Mandarin is a better language choice for Australians. China is the rising power in your area.

Country Girl: It may surprise you, but I agree with most of what y ou say, except 1) the Professional Aboriginalists want to force you to apologize. 2) a generalization isn't a falsehood.

Josephine Flood, "The Original Australians", p. 218, published 2005. "During my 40 years in Australia and much travelling in the NT and all six states, I have been struck by how seldom one sees Aboriginal people performing ordinary jobs apart from reserved positions in Aboriginal organisations, visitor centres or settlements."

Do the employed aboriginal people in Tamworth work in the mainstream economy, or in "reserved positions in Aboriginal organizations, visitor centres, or settlements"?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/aih/nsw/8.html
"Of males in the labour force, 41.5 per cent of Aborigines were unemployed, compared with 9.7 per cent of other males in New South Wales."

Desipis ... you have become boring.

I have employed an aboriginal girl in Sydney.

I helped the guy out in the shops the other day.

I purchased some calendars from a lady who was doing it tough 4 days ago.

I buy art from struggling artists.

I purchased a book from a lady who was doing it tough a month ago. I paid $40 for a book she was selling for $29 just to put a few more bucks in her pocket.

I have helped people refinance their homes to protect them from the crooks in the housing market! (unpaid in my own time)

I have sat and talked to cancer sufferers - in my own time regularly!

I have counselled (unpaid in my own time) an aborigine on how he and his clan might turn their property into an education facility!

I have counselled (unpaid in my own time) many people with depression and other problems!

You will often see me at the shops talking to the disabled and helping people where others don't care to help!

I am currently helping a gentleman who's life has been destroyed by a particular company to get his entitlements (unpaid in my own time)

There is more... but I try to do things in quietly and with respect for those I asist...

Yep my apology counts because I do things to help people.

What have you done except pontificate on how scared you are to say sorry?

Some people are doers and some are windbags which one are you?

To the bigotted people on these pages... You make me sick!