Dear SAM SAID:......

I appreciate your kind attempt to correct me but if I may... let me point to and use the 'interpretation' used by Mohammad himself, as reported by the hadith tradition, to flesh out a widespread (and dangerous) Islamic understanding of 9:29 and 30.

Now.. 29 is one of the 'fight them' verses. 30 is 'the target of the fighting'. “Jews and Christians” (along with polytheist pagan idolaters)

Now.. lets see how Mohammad and his followers interpreted this.

Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386

begins like this:

'Umar sent the Muslims to the great countries to fight the pagans. When Al-Hurmuzan embraced Islam, 'Umar said to him. "I would like to consult you regarding these countries which I intend to invade."

then..further down...

The other (Persian representative) asked, "Who are you?" Al-Mughira replied, "We are some people from the Arabs; ......

he continues:

"Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or give Jizya."

SAM.. do you see how it unfolded there ? Quran “fight them” to Umar “invade” and Al Mughira “We were commanded by our prophet...to fight you”

Now.. let's see if anything has changed over the centuries among some branches of Islam?
In particular Hizb Ut Tahrir.

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/index.php/EN/def

'METHOD'

Based on this, the Party defined its method of work into three stages:

The First Stage:

The stage of culturing to produce people who believe in the idea and the method of the Party, so that they form the Party group.

The Second Stage:

The stage of interaction with the Ummah, to let the Ummah embrace and carry Islam, so that the Ummah takes it up as its issue, and thus works to establish it in the affairs of life.

The Third Stage:

The stage of establishing government, implementing Islam generally and comprehensively, and carrying it as a message to the world.

KEY QUESTION.. 'what is meant by “establishing government/implementing Islam”
To answer that, I refer you to the discussion above. “fight them until”. Specially Umar's word "Invade"

Irfan,

You seem to have a problem with naming the broader project of phobia in that you never name the original racism or genocide against Indigenous people as part of your mix.

I think this is not simply a oversight but a deeply held prejudice that Islamists have developed against Indigenous people.

This is typical of the desire to be seen as 'model minorities' coming to an already 'colonised nation' and adopting the same "disremembering" as the colonisers.

Until Muslim leaders and spokespersons begin to address the bigger project of racism we all endure it is disingenuous of them to speak only of there own persecution.

From hereon, I will not join in concert with those obvious xenophobes who chant anti Muslim rhetoric, but nor will I immediately jump in to defend those who I suspect harbour racist views against me and mine.

I know the Koori community of Sydney also have these exact sentiments.

You are a troll and a fake.

Liz,

" This comment is completely irrelevant" Why is it? Minorities are just as capable of prejudice as the majority. Also lack of respect for an individual's superstitions is not racism. Yusuf's and others attempts to equate hostility towards an anti -democratic ideology with racism is misguided to say the least and counter productive in the long term.

Ranier... at last we AGREE on something!

You are dead right... spot on.. exacto!

My point would be... "everyone understands the world from their own historical/religious/ethnic standpoint"

But the IslamoRadicals ARE paying attention to the Koori community, and they are seeking to radicalize and USE them in a mini Jihad in my view.. judging by the activities at Golbourne SuperMax.

Here is prejudice also...

WHAT HAPPENS TO NON MALAYS IN "MODERATE" MALAYSIA?

here is what happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-GRuHAvVVE

Situation: At the University Putra Malaysia, some Chinese students were displaying some kind of promotional material....which the Malay/Muslim student activists found offensive or at least suspect.

The laughing, yelling, mob.. are Malays, the subdued, fearful looking ones are Chinese. One of the Malays tries to force a chinese girl to sniff his shoes...they mock..ridicule.. and become violent towards the Chinese.. and show with considerable force that they "have a place" and that place is very LOWWWWW.... and they also show who is in charge.. VERRRY in charge. "Malays/Muslims"

How many times have I said... "Radicals will control, coerce, intimidate moderates"...hmmm probably 100 times. You would find the same thing with radical Muslims against moderates in Malaysia. I came through Batu Pahat just after some radicals dressed in white,had sliced and diced the 'apostate' police with long swords.

Notice how mr SSBP in the orange T-shirt is like a rabid dog.. just like 1969 when they did a job on every chinese they could lay their hands on... well.. thanx to youtube a bloke can put a rather forceful reply to that bloke.. in his own language.

I was on the rough end of that stick myself in Malaysia. Kooris have a dream run here I assure you compared to non Malay's there.

"I try to imagine how I would feel if this rainstorm of headlines substituted the word 'Jew' for 'Muslim': Jews creating apartheid, Jews whose strange customs and costume should be banned. I wouldn't just feel frightened. I would be looking for my passport." (Jonathan Freedland writing in the Guardian as quoted by Irfan Yusuf)

Memo to Jonathan Freedland:

--Listen to what Muslims are saying about Jews.

--Look at the demographics of Europe.

--Look for your passport.

Mac

'Minorities are just as capable of prejudice as the majority'

I agree with you Mac. However, we are talking about Australia, and the discriminatory and hostile behaviour Australian Muslims are experiencing by our politicians and some non-Muslim Australians. It is unfair and unreasonable to blame Muslims in Australia for what happens in countries they have no association with.