Shockadelic

Thank you. Your wikipedia source was quite helpful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_people

You select this sentence:
"The Vietnamese people are an *ethnic* group, the *majority* ethnic group of Vietnam, comprising *86%* of the population, and are officially known as *Kinh* to distinguish them from other ethnic groups."

From this, you conclude:
“So the Kinh are the group who would generally be labelled "the Vietnamese race" or "the Vietnamese culture".

This, you assert, warrants your conclusion that “All the other peoples you mention aren't Vietnamese *ethnically*. They just share the same nationality on their passports.”

So they live and work in Vietnam – and have for many centuries – they speak Vietnamese, eat Vietnamese food, enjoy Vietnamese music, helped kick out the French, the Japanese, the Americans from Vietnam – and yet are not Vietnamese because you have decreed it.

Since you wrote about the 'Vietnamese race', I searched throughout your wikipedia article for the word ‘race’. It wasn’t there. The phrase "the Vietnamese culture" wasn’t in the article either (although there was a link to that phrase in another place).

Since wikipedia is your authority, I thought I’d look at what wikipedia says about ‘race’.

“Many scientists have argued that race definitions are imprecise, arbitrary, derived from custom, have many exceptions, have many gradations, and that the numbers of races delineated vary according to the culture making the racial distinctions; thus they reject the notion that any definition of race pertaining to humans can have taxonomic rigour and validity.”

You acknowledge that anthropologists may not use the term ‘race’ anymore. Haven’t you forgotten geneticists, human biologists and cultural historians?

But you know better than all of them, and appoint yourself spokesman on behalf of the “99.9999999999999% of the 6 billion people on Earth [who] aren't anthropologists”. You and they are” just ‘lay’ people with identities they create themselves” – except apparently for those 'non-Vietnamese' Vietnamese, who have to be somone else.

Your lecturette on the ‘Latin race’, the ‘European race’, the ‘Caucasian race’ and their ‘multiple layers’ was a hoot. What ‘race’ do the 21,000,000 Australians fit into? Please explain.

CJ Morgan: "There's no such thing except in the tiny minds of racists."

Well, most of the world's population are racist then.
Ask a Kinh if a white Italian could "be" a Kinh.
Answer: Big fat No.

FrankGol, the Kinh are 86% of the Vietnamese nationals.
The *next largest* group, the Tay, comprise only 1.9%!

"They live and work in Vietnam – and have for many centuries"

Gypsies have lived and worked in Romania for centuries.
Does that make them or their culture "ethnic Romanian"?

"they speak Vietnamese"

And their *own* languages too.

"eat Vietnamese food"

So, if I eat pho every day, I'm suddenly "ethnically Vietnamese".

"helped kick out the Japanese"

Australians helped "Smack the Japs" too, does that make Australian diggers "ethnically Vietnamese"?

"You have decreed it."

No, the Kinh have.
They also call themselves *Viet*.

Despite many cultural groups existing in Vietnam, the Kinh are the majority, the country is *named* after them, and their language is the *only* official one!

Could it be any clearer?

"What wikipedia says about 'race'"?

You missed this:
"A survey, taken in 1985, asked 1200 American anthropologists how many *disagree* with the following proposition:
"There are biological races in the species Homo sapiens."

The responses were:
physical anthropologists 41%
cultural anthropologists 53%

The same survey, taken in 1999:
physical anthropologists 69%
cultural anthropologists 80%"

*Not* 100%.

Oh, and this:
"Other geneticists, in contrast, argue that categories of self-identified race/ethnicity or biogeographic ancestry are both *valid and useful*".

And this:
"The FBI employs the term "race" to summarize the general appearance of individuals whom they are attempting to apprehend."

And this:
"Forensic anthropologists draw on highly heritable morphological features of human remains in order to aid in the identification of the body, including in terms of race."

Doesn't sound too unanimous to me.

"Your lecturette was a hoot. What 'race' do the 21,000,000 Australians fit into?"

*Which* Australians?
This is a colony, unlike Vietnam and Italy.

"Australian" is a *cultural* identity, but one created by a Germanic-Celtic/European/Caucasian majority.

Without them, I doubt the *culture* (not nationality) could continue to exist.
Do you?

HI TO ALL THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS . YES WE ARE STILL HERE AND NOT GOING AWAY . THIS IS LOUD NOW ,AS I BRING THE COMMENT IS THAT WE ARE AUSTRALIANS THAT WERE DERGADED MORALLY BY THE SERVENTS OF INSTITUTIONS HERE IN AUSTARLIA WE ARE THE VICTIMS AND IF IT WAS ANYONE OF ANY RACE THAT WAS A VICTIM WHILE THEY WERE IN A AUSTRALIAN INSTITUTION THEY ARE A FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIAN IT HAPPEND HERE AND THIS AUSTRALIA GOVERMENT IS RESPONSABLE ,OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE ADMITTED TRUTH HOWARD OR RUDD YOU KNOW THIS IS THE TRUTH SO TELL THE WORLD SORRY FOR OTHER PRIME MINISTERS MISTAKES AS YOU ARE THE ONE IN POWER HERE MR HOWARD AS IT WON'T HURT YOUR ELECTION ,AND THAT IS THE SAME FOR MR RUDD

Shockadelic

What are we to do with the 54 ethnic groups recognized as Vietnamese by the Vietnamese Government but which you won’t accept as Vietnamese? Perhaps you’d sponsor them as immigrants to Australia, seeing they’re not Vietnamese?

Interesting that the parallel to Gypsies came to your mind; we know what Hitler wanted to do with them.

Last time I had a Vietnamese meal (in Footscray) I didn’t become a Vietnamese, as expected, and I don’t think you will either. Shocktrooper logic. Australians fought against the Japanese without becoming Vietnamese. Really? You’re kidding? Keep the laughs coming.

At 1.0 p.m. today, you hit me with this argument: “Anthropologists may not use the term "race" anymore, but unfortunately for you 99.9999999999999% of the 6 billion people on Earth aren't anthropologists.”

Then at 5.26 p.m. you tell me that anthropologists are not 100% agreed on 'race'. Now settle down and think it through. How can I argue with you when you can't decide what you believe. Go away somewhere quiet and sort yourself out. Are the anthropologists who weren't in your 1 o'clock group part of the 99.9999999999999% of the 6 billion people who don't agree with anthropologists or do they fit in with the anthropologist who don't use the term 'race' anymore??

Your latest gem of racial wisdom is nearly as comic as your lecturette on European 'races': "‘Australian’ is a *cultural* identity, but one created by a Germanic-Celtic/European/Caucasian majority.”

Given that this thread started out as the story of Auntie Rhonda and her family, I wonder where you will place her people in your racial catalogue? They clearly aren’t Gypsies. It doesn’t look as if they’ll get a game in your ‘Germanic-Celtic/European/Caucasian majority’ team. Wrong colour guernsey, perhaps? But they're Australians aren't they?

Mum, Dad. I asked to see you today because I have something I need to tell you.
I've been wondering how to say it, but I guess the only way...
Mum...Dad...

I'm Vietnamese.

(shocked look on parents' faces)

I know, it's not what you expected.
I was just as shocked as you at first.

You're Caucasian.
Most Caucasian parents presume their children will grow up to be Caucasian just like them.
And our society encourages that expectation.

But it doesn't always turn out that way.

At first, I thought it was just a phase I'd grow out of.

Lots of young people try multicultural food, or listen to world music.
I myself listened to the Mysterious Voices of Bulgaria, and ate tabbouleh.

But one day, I ate pho.
And that's when I knew in my heart I was Vietnamese.

I was soon eating pho every day.
Whenever I passed a Vietnamese restaurant, I had to go inside.
Even if I didn't order anything, just the aromas were enough.

But then I heard quan ho music.
This only confirmed my suspicions.

I learnt to speak my native tongue.
I read books on my people's history.
I couldn't deny it anymore.
I knew this was who I am.

I know I look white, and most people presume I am.
I'm not alone either.

There's lots of people out there who have ethnic identities that don't correlate with their genetic ancestry.

I know an anthropologist did a survey in the 1950s, and found about 10% of white people aren't actually white at all!

I have one friend who's Aboriginal.
She looks white, but she said that because her grandmother's second cousin's nephew was Aboriginal, that makes her Aboriginal too.

She experiences prejudice a lot, even from other Aboriginals, who really should be more understanding.

Don't worry. I won't live a sad and lonely life.
I've already met lots of other whites-who-aren't-white.

I know you're Caucasian, and I respect that.
But I hope you can respect me and still accept me as your son, even now that you know I'm really Vietnamese.

Shockadelic

Did you know the Melbourne Cup is on today? And I hear there's a grey that might beat the blacks. That should make your lot very pleased, although I expect you'd want the bloodhorse breeders to keep trying for a pure white winner in the future.