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The Forum > Article Comments > Is university necessary for all? > Comments

Is university necessary for all? : Comments

By Phil Rennie, published 18/10/2007

Given the explosion in university student numbers and the high cost to us all, surely its time to re-evaluate the benefit to society.

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"Is university necessary for all?"

It is necessary for all to have ACCESS to university, should they desire to take that path. Denying that possibility to working-class students (I was one of those, once) via impossible financial hurdles (such as those imposed by our present Federal government) is to move away from a fairer, more equitable society.

The dearth of qualified tradespeople and the dwindling numbers of those wishing to take apprenticeships is not due directly to the increasing numbers taking up university study - please don't confuse the issue. If the Federal government wishes for more young people to take up a trade, they shouldn't have taken away so many apprenticeships in the first place. Their response appears to be importing qualified (cheaper) personnel from overseas - a tacit admission that their policies in that area (training) were WRONG.
Posted by petal, Thursday, 18 October 2007 10:17:54 AM
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Many years ago in a university far away a group of pseudo-academics in a business faculty was asked what benefit students gained from attending university. I was one of those pseudo-academics.

These were our conclusions.

--Many of our students were too immature to enter the labour force. We provided a sort of storage vat where they could mature. This, we concluded, was actually our primary function.

--Students learned social survival skills and the art of politicking from each other. This was in fact the most valuable skill they picked up during their sojourn with us.

--By making students jump through hoops, not the least of which was sitting through mind-bogglingly stupid lectures, we were able to demonstrate that they had a certain self-discipline and tenacity and were mostly docile. Since employers value tenacity, the ability to tolerate boredom and docility this helped students get jobs.

--We ran an excellent marriage mart.

--We could not exclude the possibility that the students learned something valuable from us but we thought it unlikely.

Of course when it comes to real subjects like science, engineering or medicine the position is different. But most of the so-called business or arts courses are a waste of time.

As an employer I've found that one of the most valuable skills is the ability to communicate well. I was not interested in people who had done courses in "business communications" or journalism. Rather I sought out English majors provided they had included the classics in the electives.

A word of advice to prospective students. Eschew course with the word "studies" in the title such as "Women's Studies" or "Aboriginal Studies."

Avoid IT courses. Do some practical training and go get a job.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Thursday, 18 October 2007 10:30:34 AM
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StevenLMeyer says:

"Avoid IT courses. Do some practical training and go get a job."

This shouldn't be restricted to IT courses, but a whole range of courses. As an employer, one of the least appealing things in a candidate is someone who has a degree (or worse, more than one) and has no relevent work experience. This person is of no use to me.

But as a more general comment, this article is right. As someone who didn't go to uni and now earns multiples of the average income (at age 30), I feel quite comfortable in saying that university is not a prerequisite for being successful. What is required is the ability to think, to push yourself, to make sensible decisions (like not overloading yourself with debt), and to make yourself into a valuable employee.

There are certain courses that we want prospective employees to have undertaken (law, engineering, medicine etc) but this is specific to those occupations. Going to uni because you don't want to enter the workforce yet or some other innane reason is not the right reason to go.

Agree with this article entirely.
Posted by BN, Thursday, 18 October 2007 11:00:47 AM
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Getting any kind of job these days requires some kind of training. in fact, unskilled jobs are few and far between and are hard to get because well,there are to many unskilled workers out there.

with so many manufacturing jobs going overseas, what are the people who would otherwise be employed in these industries supposed to do? the only choice is to get trained in something and university is one option.Another is getting trained by an employer willing to take inexperienced people on <good luck>.

apprenticeships are hard to get, even with a skills shortage. have you ever spoken to a kid trying to get a plumbing and electrician apprenticeship? there are many frustrated youngsters out there.

the problem lies with the nature of our society. we are so technologically advanced that no-one can keep up, everyone is expendable (or so some moronic employers think).
Posted by davo, Thursday, 18 October 2007 11:31:41 AM
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For decades I supported the notion that any youth should be encouraged to pursue a trade if it suited their goals and temperament.

I only realised my tragic error when I shared a house for six months with an 18-year-old trade apprentice.

This kid was working 12-hour days while being paid for 8 hour days.

He was regularly exposed to dangerous inhaled chemicals with no protective equipment. In fact, regulation safety gear was almost unknown on the worksite.

If employees took a day off sick during cricket season, they had a day's wage docked because the foreman assumed they had chucked a sickie.

One morning, I watched this poor bugger hobbling to work with tears in his eyes, because he had been bitten by a bee (to which he was allergic) and his foot was swollen like a football. To take the day off would mean the sack.

I naively asked why he didn't get the union involved. Put simply, talking to the union would mean being blackballed and an end to his apprenticeship.

This is the state of Australia's apprenticeship scheme, and the reason I would encourage all young people to avoid trades and aim for uni, even if they're unsuited.
Posted by Sancho, Thursday, 18 October 2007 12:02:52 PM
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Some interesting posts :)

I agree that it is important to ensure that all kids have the chance to go uni, if it suits them, and if their intended job requires a degree. One of the reasons behind increases in uni intakes would have to be encouragement at the highschool level. Particularly in senior highschool we were told that if you didnt go to uni, you were wasting your life and earning opportunities. To me, this way of thinking channels a lot of unsuitable people towards further studies.

Ideally even though careers that do require a degree should seek to utilise cadetships as much as possible. When taking my first short-term job in my industry, I was told that the only thing I needed from uni was the very first unit of study - how true that was! If I'd been able to access a cadetship (now common in the industry), not only owuld the govt not have had to fork out for Austudy during my time at uni, but I'd have had the practical on the job experience to make me a very useful employee at the end of me degree (which incidentally is a pre-requisite to career advancement, despite not actually containing anything useful).
Posted by Country Gal, Thursday, 18 October 2007 1:41:03 PM
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