Lev,

No OLO writer has stated they approved of Jewish settlements in Palestinian areas. Quite the contrary. Palestine is no Bantustan - and none would wish it to be.

You are obviously caught up in the latest fashionable university cause, which periodically blow across campuses.

“Apartheid”, “Bantustan”, “Cantons”, “Colonialists” - Quite emotive and exciting catchcries!

You are in good company with White supremacist David Duke, Holocaust denier Paul Grubach, Hendrik Verwoerd (former prime minister of South Africa and the architect of South Africa's apartheid policies) and Idi Amin Dada (former President of Uganda)

Regarding your ref: - Apartheid Laws in Israel - “The Art of The Obfuscatory Formulation”, it was written in 1991 by Uzi Ornan, supporter of the Cannanite movement, which his brother founded ...

Israeli citizens experience prejudices amongst its many minorities, as do all multi-racial, multi-ethnic democracies, but Israel’s laws try to eradicate – not endorse – prejudices. For example, sincere efforts are made to instill humanitarian and egalitarian attitudes in children. Affirmative action ensures every orgnisation/business has at least one Arab member. Many businesses are Jew/Muslim jointly owned.

Arab representatives in the Knesset, who continuously call for dismantling the Jewish state, support the Hezbollah, etc., enjoy more freedom than many Western democracies give their internal Oppositions.

Jamal Zahalka, an Israeli-Arab member of the Knesset, argued that the West Bank and Gaza Strip separated into "cantons," with Palestinians required to carry permits to travel between them. Azmi Bishara, another Arab member of the Knesset, argued that the Palestinian situation had been caused by "colonialist apartheid." Not only are these Arabs active members of the Knesset, but they are expressing, without fear of censure or restrictions, complete freedom of speech.

Israel's Arabs largely identify with the Palestinians. But Israel hasn't jailed or curtailed their freedoms en masse (since 1966 when Israel lifted its state of martial law).

In 2004's “The Trouble with Islam Today”, Muslim feminist Irshad Manji argues that any allegation of apartheid is ludicrous. How can there be with Arab political parties; Arab-Muslim legislators having veto powers; and Arab parties having won overturned disqualifications.

cont ...

She cites Arabs, like Emile Habibi, being awarded prestigious prizes; a free Arab press; Arabs living and studying alongside Jews; and Palestinans commuting from the West Bank being entitled to state benefits and legal protections.

Has it eluded you that Israel has been either at war or under siege? As I write, it is under rocket attack. ID cards are mandatory at such times.

Israel’s “borders” and fence adhere strictly to Resolution 242 and international law , read my OLO (doubtless you won’t...)
5/9/07
6/9/07
10/9/07
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282&page=0#93167

In 2004, Israel's foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, confirmed that the barrier is not a border but a temporary defensive measure designed to protect Israeli civilians from terrorist infiltration and attack, and can be dismantled when appropriate.The Supreme Court of Israel ruled that the barrier is defensive and accepted the government's position that the route is based on security considerations.

Importantly, the West Bank barrier has reduced incidents of terrorism by 90% from 2002 to 2005.

All countries provide special benefits to returned service personnel; even Australia - cheaper loans, housing, free university education, medical, the earlier soldier-settler program. A well-known organisation only employed veterans as male staff.

In 2004, Jean-Christophe Rufin, former vice-president of Médecins Sans Frontières and president of Action Against Hunger, argued that the term apartheid is inaccurate, dangerous, and used as a rhetorical device.

Though disagreeing with Israel's policies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Ian Buruma, Professor of Democracy, Human Rights & Journalism at Bard College, New York, finds the comparison:

"intellectually lazy, morally questionable, and possibly even mendacious."

In 2003, South Africa's minister for home affairs Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi:

"The Israeli regime is not apartheid. It is a unique case of democracy".

Fred Taub, the President of Boycott Watch:

"[t]he assertion ... that Israel is practicing apartheid is not only false, but may be considered libelous”

Lee Bollinger, President of Columbia University said that the analogy of Israel to South Africa at the time of apartheid:

"is both grotesque and offensive"

Love your work Danielle.

Its just so easy for lev and others to throw about vague and innapropriate analogies. Its the first refuge of someone who is having trouble trying to get their point across. It has great propaganda value but sheds VERY little light on the subject.

Danielle,

What OLO writers approve or disapprove is irrelevant in this matter. They do not dictate the behaviour of the State of Israel.

I am not caught up in this cause at all; my primary foreign affairs interest is East Timor and the democratisation of Indonesia. Indeed, this debate has reach "argumentum ad nauseam" to me.

The descriptive terms have accuracy in terms of the implementation and practise. Your claims of association are quite false of course, and quite typcial among those who like to claim those who are critical of Israel are axiomatically anti-Jewish. On the contrary, I am theologically closest to Judiasm than any other mainstream religion. It would be more accurate to describe my company as being Hannah Arendt, Noam Chomsky and Uri Davids.

Engaging in the rhetorical tactic of appeal to authority can have some justification. However quoting Irshad Manji, Jean-Christophe Rufin, Ian Buruma etc however is largely irrelavant. They are not experts in apartheid; Buthelezi is particularly bad example as he largely supported apartheid regime.

You are doubtless aware of the comments from those of greater expertise in the matter which I have already cited, or you could look up the Wikipedia article from which you've received all your quotations.

Likewise, I am utterly uninterested in on whether or not Uzi Ornan is a member of the Cannanite movement, as you should be as well. It is the facts of his argument that matter. Once again you are trying to attack the messanger rather than the message. Numerous examples have been given of how Israel's laws and practise endorse hafrada, which you have either ignored or actually confirmed. In other words, you've lost the debate on the basis of the facts presented but are intellectually and perhaps morally incapable of recoginsing this.

The examples you gave of Jamal Zahlka and Azmi Bishara are criticising practises of the occupation. Please give an example of an Arab member of the Knesset who has continiously called for the dismantling of the Jewish state. Go on - I bet you can't.

Lev,

You rely on information from the “Guardian” - recognised as gutter press. Google “Guardian” + royal family and see the headlines and salacious reporting. Princess Margaret has an illegitmate son!? The Bulletin caters to the lowest common denominator of readership. As for Chris McGreal,... and citing “$” Carter? Read what Iranian intellectuals and dissidents say of this man. You provided a site which mirrored the Palestinian Curriculum Development Center - Palestinian propoganda; ... who runs it?

The Knesset member Bishara organized an illegal delegation to visit Syria in 2002, at a time when Israel and Syria were officially at war; also called on Arab states to fight Israel.
I conclude that this would be treasonable in any country. Israeli law grants immunity concerning political attitudes and political activities to all members of the Knesset, without any distinction between political affiliations, for life.Bishara did jeopardise his immunity. But great debate amongst legal scholars and others in Israel ensued. The fact that such debate is open and lawful, indicates the extent of freedom allowed.

Uri Davis. It is to Israel’s credit that others like him can form organisations enjoying freedom of speech in Israel. I doubt very much if Australian individuals, or organisations, who wanted the destruction of Australia’s nationhood, incorporating it with, for example, Indonesia would be tolerated. They would come immediately under security suspicion.

cont ...

We have yet to see affirnative action introduced with our indigenous people - such as requiring every public organisation to have an indigenous person on the board of directors. I am sure, an excellent case for apartheid could be made for the way in which we administer our own aborigines.

Your rationale for the marriage laws in Israel, beggar belief. Australia also accepts marriages from different groups. France, on the other hand, do not accept any of these marriages as legal. Only civil marriages are legitimate, thus, those wanting a religious marriage have to have a civil marriage first.

Religious states? The Vatican has influenced laws about marriage, divorce, abortions, and contraception in countries such as Italy and Ireland.

Uzi Ornan. If you had proper academic training in research of primary materials, you would know that you cannot use them in isolation from the context, time, place, and cicumstances in which they were written, nor from the background of, influences on, nor intentions of the writer. There are at least eight distinct , very different schools and methodologies of histriography which need to be applied in any humanities research. This also applies to secondary material. We have witnessed how primary material can be selectively used to build a false argument. Extra methodologies and, indeed, disciplines are needed for research into earlier periods.

I am intrigued about your involvment in bringing democracy to Indonesia. Extremely ambitious and, might I say, somewhat presumptive.

Some years ago, one of my sons intent on working for third world countries, also incorporating “third world economics” within his Politics undergrad , and post-grad. degree, found that third world countries do not like to think of themselves as having third world economies. A WHO administrater reported that massive funding to one such country resulted in a state-of-the-art library - a showcase to the west. Unfortunately, very few in this particular country were even literate.

This same son wrote a thesis on Indonesia and its economy - the consequence - he was banned from ever entering the country.