Botheration and Country Gal
I would think that adoption should be very much emphasised, and adoption is much more loving than the totally artificial world of IVF, (complete with its recruitment of donors, test tubes, microscopes, Petri dishes, injections and experiments on eggs and sperm)

There are now millions of children who have become orphans or are living in extreme poverty throughout Africa and Asia because of AIDS, and for a society to be spending so much time and money on HIV borders on obscene.

However I tend to think that there is more money to be made with IVF and also abortion, so in our consumerist society, we have IVF and abortion and very little interest is being shown in adoption.

As far a feminism is concerned, the so called extremist feminists are very much mainstream, and most of them are being taxpayer funded and employed in Universities in various countries around the world.

The feminist fascination for IVF dates back to the 1970’s with the release of the book “The Dialectic of Sex” by Shulamith Firestone

http://www.marxists.org/subject/women/authors/firestone-shulamith/dialectic-sex.htm

It was widely read as a part of women’s study courses and regarded as a feminist classic. It describes pregnancy as being “barbaric” and calls for systems of artificial reproduction. That desire by feminists lives on, with the pronouncement a few years ago by the loving feminist queen Germaine Greer (who is employed in a university and well respected by fellow feminists) that men were now “surplus to requirements”.

However there have been theories put forward that a zygote cell could be produced from any cell in the body, so the female egg or follicle may become redundant in the wonderful and loving world of IVF. So considering the direction that the loving IVF industry is going, Shulamith Firestone’s loving dream of artificial reproduction may not be very far away.

I also think that feminism is to equality what George Bush is to peace.

I fear that neither of us is going to convince the other HRS. Germaine Greer is a twit. Most women have known that for years. To refer to such extremists as being mainstream feminists is just silly. Yes they are in uni's etc, but newsflash for you - theoretical think-tanks such as uni arts departments rarely have much to do with the real world.

Perhaps one day a zygote can be created from another cell, but we are still much further off from actually bringing that child to independent life without the use of a natural womb. Is that what this is about, you have womb envy?

One of the reasons that feminism has focussed on pregnancy, is gaining of control of the process. Remember that it comes from a history of having zip control over what is in fact a very dangerous process. Modern medicine has helped to alleviate many of the risks, but dont forget that many women still die of childbirth related problems, even in Western countries. If I didnt have access to contraception that I could control (ie the pill), I would eventually die from childbirth (I cant give birth naturally, and you can only have so many caesers safely). So feminist-sought contraception is a life-giver to me (and countless other women).

Country Gal
Many cults such as the cult of feminism will attempt to recruit from universities, because the students are often enthusiastic and have romantic notions, but they are still naïve and lack real life experience. So I would think that parents and all taxpayers should be quite concerned if any type of radical or extremist is employed in a university to give lectures to young people.

IVF is not the pill. IVF is heading towards artificial reproduction and the creation of designer children.

The IVF industry was initially welcomed by feminists because they thought that it could eliminate fathers, but unfortunately the IVF industry will eventually eliminate mothers also.

“Eggs may be grown from stem cells, researchers say”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2005/06/21/1396520.htm

The IVF industry has also been experimenting with developing the artificial womb, and also manipulating the genetic structure of various other animals as well as humans.

The IVF industry tries to hide behind “helping the infertile”, but lesbian women and single women who have IVF are not infertile. The IVF industry welcomes them because they represent a dollar sign.

There are now millions of orphaned children because of AIDs, but there is little money to be made in adoption.

HRS

I have just re-read the posts on this list and on whole your posts seem to emerge from a nexus of fear, ignorance and what I consider a quite bazaar imagination, (Every state and territory has laws that cover donor sperm and eggs and these uniformly define the relationship between donor and off spring as biological only – no-one can sue for support or inheritance but you are perfectly happy to spread fear and ignorance regarding this and other issues). I also see that when people on this list make points that don’t suit your assertions you seem to either deliberately ignore the point made or go further with even wilder assertions and language, (such as “harvesting males for sperm” - has anybody else on list ever herd of anything so ridiculous!). From your posts it seems you believe that that feminists are bad, mothers are bad, lesbians are bad, IVF is bad, people who conceive biologically rather than adopt are bad, universities are bad, sperm/egg donation is bad, single mothers are bad, abortion is bad, IVF doctors are bad etc....). Basically everything that is beyond your control that has anything to do with women and reproduction is bad. I say of you don’t like IVF – don’t have it, don’t like feminists – don’t become one. Don’t like sperm/egg donation – don’t donate sperm - No one will ever force you!

Billy C
You have now convinced me, and I am brainwashed.

I can no longer think for myself, and I am planning on calling myself an “ist”.

Unfortunately I can’t make up my mind as to what type of “ist” I should call myself, or what type of cult I should belong to.

But as a part of my penance, I shall repeat the following several times a day: -

IVF is love.
Abortion is love.
Feminism is love.

I plan to be a very loving person in the future, and I will concentrate more on making money by any means possible.

HRS

Your post illustrates the point in my previous post completely.

Thank you