WearyMum,

You say “I agree that there are SOME mothers who do abuse the premise that a child has a right to know both parents; but the greatest majority do not.” You have some evidence for this, do you?

You should try being a father who cannot see his kids because the mother doesn’t want him to, irrespective of court agreements awarding the father visitation rights.

You should try living with the fact that the mother can leave town at a moments notice.

Try living with the regular visits from agencies of all shapes responding to vicious UNFOUNDED allegations just to make your life more difficult and access to your child less likely.

Try living with the fact that the POISONOUS C#NT who looks after your child can fill their heads with lies about how bad Dad is, in the safety of knowing Dad has little comeback.

Finally watch as she claims the fruits of all your hard work, whilst she sits on her FAT A#SE watching day time telly and looking for ways to scr#w you out of more of your money

So before you go over the top with your personal insults, recognize that there is more to this world than your own finite experience. Good fathers, who love their kids, cop it from all directions under the current system. You can just about guarantee that the woman will always win in the family court and the social workers are almost always militant feminazis who KNOW that the man is always the bastard, the one to blame, and act accordingly.

Paul L
Now that’s a little bit over the top, and rather off topic.

If that is your situation then I don’t think it is abnormal, and I have actually heard of far worse.

In fact your situation is very much the norm for many men.

However I think that this has come about through the devaluing of men and fathers, and this devaluing has been sustained and also planned. The situation is now that fathers are not believed necessary, and it is believed that fathers can be eliminated through IVF, and this was first proposed within the cult of feminism in the 1970's.

There is no love in IVF. It is a completely unnatural and artificial system, and unlikely to be sustainable in the longer term.

HRS – I did sound vitriolic didn't I! Oops - must be the Rheumatoid Arthritis and spinal damage 'arcing' me up. I don't get any pain relief except for a 2-3 week spell when I have a Spinal Block (can only have 3-4 a year.) … won’t take me long to get the hang of this forum.. and thanks for the warning.

"Feminists and IVF clinics appear to be very supportive of harvesting males for sperm, but have minimal interest in males or fathers afterwards."

Doesn’t a lot of this harvesting involve men being paid by clinics for their “sperm donation” – it certainly did for most of the past 60 years in Australia, U.K and U.S. And until recent legislation demanding that the “harvested men” provide financially for their progeny - it was considered a simple financial transaction and no more legally binding than a blood donation. The legislation opened a ‘Pandora’s box’ of lawsuits and anger on from parents and kids alike.

With regard to frozen sperm harvested for a married couple who later divorce, I can’t recall too many cases that were successful for the former wife’s.

"Feminazi” – a term I and many women are heartily sick of hearing as it doesn’t really mean anything. It’s simply another derogative name to apply to women who refuse to be held to the “goods and chattels “ legal standard espoused prior to the 70’s.

In fact since 1975 I can only recall one woman that would come close to a “feminazi” and that was a time when we were being implored by the Women’s Electoral Lobby et al to stop shaving our armpits and to be more “male than men.”

‘Feminism’ is about raising the status of women so as to bring their rights into line with their male counterparts; that the two genders be held equal. At no time in my almost 50 years have I ever expected to be deemed superior or inferior to a man or a woman …. Equality should be the right of both genders as neither can literally survive without the other!

Paul L. "You have some evidence for this, do you?"

Um yeah I do and forgive my previous sarcasm! One of the very latest reports - embargoed until August this year - releases relevant data collected in the last Census regarding Single Parent families. I haven't got it in front of me but would be only too pleased to forward you the link. I have so much data on my 3 hard drives - can you give me a couple of days?

The info in just this one report would surprise many who assume that single mums generally are wealthy; or that the majority are young and uneducated; or that as a percentage they didn't work prior to being required to legislatively.

I know the FC can now impose prison terms for either parent found to be breaching Orders - have you looked into this option?

I was adopted in another country and am legislatively denied any information about my birth parents. Knowing how adversely it affected me I have never denied our child the right to know/see his Dad either before or since Court Orders were imposed - I left the marriage 8 years ago. He has since remarried so it's a "yours, mine and ours" situation. It ain’t easy but ….

If it's "lying" that's got her through then she should watch out. It may be small comfort to you at the moment but "What goes around comes around." There will come a day when the kids will realise they have been "stooged" by her. Whichever parent is abusive - it bites them in the proverbial at some stage...

The recent changes to the Family Law legislation make it pretty difficult now to up and leave without good reason no matter which parent it is so you would have very valid grounds to fight her on this.

Well wearyMum, I didnt think you were over the top at all. And I certainly wouldnt call your post abusive or personal. You simply pointed out flaws in another posters comments, mainly by reference to your own situation rather than his!

The problem with a sweeping term such as "feminism" is that it covers a huge raft of views from those women who could be called feminists because they work (whereas 50 years ago they would not have been allowed to in that industry) but still consider the husband to be "head of the house", right through to the "man-haters". And the problem is that the women-haters tend to hone in on the man-haters (and vice-versa).

HRS, while the IVF process may have been hijacked in some quarters, the main reason behind the start and the continuation of the IVF industry is for couples that cant have children without assistance. Yes, there are the odd cases where its a single woman, or lesbians. I dont have the data, but given the number of people I have personally spoken to about their IVF experiences, I doubt very much whether these cases make a significant percentage.

I agree with you that sperm donors should never be able to be pursued for financial support. There are perhaps a few exceptions that it would maybe be fair (to the child created) to lift this protection. This is where the mother (or parents in the case of sterile husbands) are killed or so seriously disabled that they cant provide for the child. It does infringe on the donor, but at the same time, men shouldnt donate unless they are prepared to take a remote possibility of having to provide for the offspring created. Otherwise the responsibility should lie solely with the parent/s that are "actively creating" the child

There should also be a requirement that the child be told its origins at a certain point (maybe 18?), and that it be given the right to contact its father. Lots of people DO tell their children this, but mandating it would give equality to all children who were born this way. Current sperm banks could be reassessed, and donors contacted to see if they agree with the new rules, and those that dont (or cant be found) should be destroyed. All new donors would of course know the rules. A similar approach should be taken with egg donors (yes, women can be donors too!). There could even be profiles put with each donor, outlining whether the donor is willing to be contacted by the child at anytime (or indeed wants to have an input into the child's raising). Women and couples selecting donors would then have to comply with the donor's wishes too. Much more equality all round.

So, instead of having a go at women in general, and whinging about what the system DOESNT do, how about making a few suggestions about how to improve it. Overall its an industry that does a lot of good to a wide range of families (most of them nuclear and traditional) - its unfortunate that its the fringe looneys that we hear about.