I have no interest in a Muslim conversation.
Muslims come to this country, take full advantage of the benefits of our free society - then force their religious ideology on mainstream Australia, constantly repeating that Muslims and Islam teach peace - Do they think Australians are that ignorant? - In Iraq at the moment is a civil war, Shai against Sunni, the barbarity of beheadings and executions is their religious truth!...20yrs ago in this country we didn't have to worry about subversives in the suburbs?
Which is what Britain is experiencing - Home grown terrorists; Muslim youths(read male)'not happy' with their lot; plotting to blow up shopping centres and nightclubs? (5 sentenced to life in Britain in May 07 for just that intended crime)- Then we have researchers in the comfort of our Universities writing PhD's on a starting point etc...I for one don't want to start. When will our politicans stop pussyfooting around with this issue. OK, so local Muslims have a problem with the USA/UK/Aust foreign policy in Iraq? Solution - in future we'll just clear all foreign policy measures with those minorities first shall we?? - Pakistan seems to be the "Devils Mouth" - they export terror/and everything to do with it.
If Muslims do not accept our way of life, then they are no longer welcome, and should leave and go somewhere else where they feel more at home. The pending election cannot come quick enough. Why does our Federal Government continue to import Muslims into Australia? - Can't our Immigration Minister/Prime Minister READ?? or are they too busy bending over backward to get porked some more?.

CJ said:

"Ultimately, I think that the extreme antagonism towards Islam - and by extension, Muslims "-

Err...no. Now you made the same mistake there as Judge Higgins claimed about the 2 Dannies. You just lumped we 'Bible Bashers' into the category of 'hating all muslims' and this is a fundamental mistake demonstrating a lack of integrity and an attempt to simply smear mud on all anti Islamic posters. In short..its cheap and nasty $2 shop stuff.

A person with integrity would say "Antagonism toward Islam and the radicals who promote its violent, aggressive or sexually disgusting aspects"

Those are the main targets of our opposition. I've shown proof in the past couple of days that Islam (the 'religion'.. the Quran) allows what our law describes as 'Paedophilia'. Now .. if that sticks to all Muslims, it is THEY who have to defend this charge. Unfortunately, the Muslim commentators are clear.

The reason for the waiting period is to see if SHE IS PREGNANT! Surah 65:4 refers.

Now..before Pericles goes off the deep end about "Selective verses which support my Islamophobia" I should point out that this whole chapter is specific teaching on the issue of DIVORCE. It is an outline of 'Allah's law' about it. There is nothing to interpret other than look at the plain simple meaning of the words as they stand.
There is no allegory, no word picture..they are COMMANDMENTS.. and this is exactly how Maududi and other Islamic scholars understand them.
Maududi is a renowned scholar because his rulings encompass reference to the major schools of Islamic jurisprudence.. Maliki, Sha'afi, Hanbali etc.

He is also the theological father of Pakistan from what I gather.

As far as I'm concerned.. Muslims can do what they like among their own people OUTSIDE Australia. But here..they represent a growing community which has it's social/cultural values linked directly to the Quran. As such, it is not only a right, but a responsibility to defend our own values which would NEVER make intercourse with a pre-pubescent girl legal. Hence the severity of the punishment.

Boazy: "You just lumped we 'Bible Bashers' into the category of 'hating all muslims' "

No I didn't. I have never said that all evangelical Christians hate Muslims. Indeed, this thread demkinstrates that you don't have to be a tub-thumping Christian to be extremely antagonistic to Mulims.

At least an Islamophobe like originalaussie is honest enough to say "I have no interest in a Muslim conversation". Boazy bleats about "integrity" and then tries to hide behind the sophistry of supposedly attacking Islam but not Muslims, but in the very next sentence says "Now .. if that sticks to all Muslims, it is THEY who have to defend this charge."

Boazy is at best disingenuous when he attacks Islam and Muslims on the basis of his interpretation of their myth book. Given his record of mendacity in this forum, who but another Islamophobe would trust his interpretation of anything?

Pericles,

Sorry for my previous outburst.

I live (by choice) in the South-West of Sydney where half of Australia’s 300,000 Islamic communities conglomerate.

That gives me ample opportunities to observe the gradual changes in our hospitals, college campuses, schools, local governments, etc… deep permanent changes... a definite trend.

That begs the question: Where the hell do you live (under what rock)?

So the term “paranoia” should not apply because Islam is very real for most Australians (you’re the exception).

Lately it has become my passion to raise public awareness of Islam – especially among people like yourself who are in a deep slumber and who cannot grasp the severity of the eminent degradation of this country.

Islam has made it its business to purify the world from all non-believers in Islam. That includes you, me and all non-Muslims.

Now this is not my invention – it is in their Qur’an – the very words of their god and unquestionably the marching orders of every Muslim.

You must understand that Islam perceives “we-the-west” a desecration of their praying soil. The long term implications should concern you.

To venture an example here would be to imagine a nudist colony deciding to live among society and imposing restrain and adaptation from the rest of the typical people.

What you must understand is that Islam is NOT like any other religion on earth. It has very different sets of beliefs (and behaviour) that the rest of the world. No other religion has in its precepts the forcing of others to accept their ways. The key word is “force”...that's the norm.

According to Islam ALL humans are born Muslims – some deviate from the way of Islam and MUST be purified by 3 options:

1) get back into the fold voluntarily – i.e. revert to Islam
2) live in dhimmitude to Islam (the case in most Islamic countries)
3) be kille

Are you awake yet?

Coach,

Another good answer to which I would like to add.

Mr Morgan and his ilk would do well to improve their knowledge of the subject before shooting off their content free epistles. There is a mountain of material that is a testimony to the issues involved in accommodating Islam and Muslims into our secular societies.

Read, for example, the Ibn Warriq speech referenced by Phillip Tang previously

One snippet from the Warriq speach is especially relevant in the context of the topic of the author of this OLO piece.

The State of Baden Wurrtenberg in Germany has made it so that every application for naturalisation must accept:

1. Only the State ..has the power to administer and enforce the law.
2. The equality of rights of man and woman.
3. Acceptance of the Principles of Democracy.
4. Freedom of Expression- freedom to criticise religion,even though it may offend some.

The reason they had to do this is because 21% of Muslims living in Germany believe that the German Constitution is incomatible with the Koran, and that they hold a greater loyalty to the Umma, than they do the State.

As Warriq says " These are uncomfortable questions to pose in a liberal democracy But I do not think we can pretend that real problems of loyalty do not exist."

There is no grounds for assuming that the situation in Australia is any different. Perhaps we could begin by having a conversation along these grounds..but dont hold your breath.

For another slant this latest piece from Melanie Phillips is also informative.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=533

CJ.. the charge or allegation I have made is a serious one.

I am claiming that the Quran contains SPECIFIC permission for old men to indulge in paedophilia under the guise of marriage.

I went to considerable trouble to track down ISLAMIC interpretations of the particular verse, so as NOT to appear like a whacko just grabbing verses at random to prove his loony islamaphobic point.

That...is why I said 'if the mud sticks to muslims'... what I mean't by that is.... if such an allegation is made.... it should be defended.

If they choose not to defend it.. then it remains valid.

Why 'should' they defend it? because otherwise, an increased awareness of this sad fact will reflect badly on their whole community.

I would rather them FACE up to this, and either 'deny' the Quran, and their commentators, or try to give an alternative understanding.

I do not for a moment believe they can deflect this charge, apart from denying Mohammad and the Quran itself. I simply believe that VERY few of them are actually aware of what their faith dictates, permits.

I've said all along..that my issue is with Islam. If Buddhism permitted paedophilia..and was politically active, I would be on their case exactly as I am on this one.

You refer to my mendacity etc.. my interpretations.. how silly.. It was not MY interpretations..it was
a) Clear plain language from a clearly instructive passage.
b) Supported by high ranking highly respected Islamic scholars.

The background stated by said scholars is that 'these verses were revealed to answer as yet unanswered questions'....

At least you call them 'myths' sadly..they don't see it that way, and while you can dismiss them comfortably..I cannot.