I see the 'whack-a-Mozzie' brigade's in full flight here.

If that's the kind of response that is directed towards articulate, reasonable Muslims in a reasonably civilised forum, then it's not all that hard to imagine where disaffected young Muslims on suburban streets derive their resentment.

You Islamophobes are very much part of any social problems we may experience in Australia with our Muslim minority. How is any kind of mutual respect possible when such rabid intolerance is present?

More to the point, how is any kind of meaningful conversation possible? The Islamophobes clearly don't want one.

xoddam,

>> It's very easy to debate an imaginary fundamentalist…it is not the case that one must follow slavishly the letter of a religion's holy book and medieval law to be an adherent.<<

Are you implying that the Shakira is not aware of the ridiculousness of her religion? Do you really believe that she is so naïve and innocent when waves a white flag? Common!

Islamic texts are a forgery – and not because the Judeo-Christian text are inerrant.

Islam claims that their Qur’an is the exact words of Allah (God).
So when the Qur’an says Jesus never died on a cross, or Jews are Pigs and Apes, no one dares to question it and lives to debate it. It is because Allah knows best!

The Bible is written by many mortals under God’s inspiration. BUT the Bible can be challenged historically and factually. That’s the difference.

Islam – if you care to know – teaches its followers to hate all non-muslims but especially Jews and Christians. Allah hates ALL unbelievers in Islam.

Christianity teaches to LOVE all people especially our enemies.

Shakira and all prominent Islamic leaders prefer not to reflect on this notion of HATE and play the victim minority game of wanting to converse WITHOUT the obligatory noxious teachings of Islam.

This is like someone carrying a deadly virus [knowingly or unknowingly – makes no difference]; it is in their mind, on their body, and in their blood.

The question is what should we do about it?

1) Ignore (it) and hope it will miraculously go away
2) Quarantine (it) until a cure is found and integration is declare safe
3) Destroy (it) by providing help to the carriers
4) Deport them and let it be someone else’s problem

The deadly virus (hate teachings) is here among us NOW.

I make no apology for this comparison as Islam is potentially more harmful to this nation than any virus left unchecked.

CJ,

Mutual respect, you say? The key word is MUTUAL! The problem is that your your Muslims friends do not respect others. They only want respect and dialogue on their terms.

Tell me, what is reasonable and civilized about people that refuse to be honest about their own religion? Is it unreasonable to ask about the hate and violence Islam teaches in its writings? Is is unreasonable to assume that the intolerance, oppression and lack of freedoms in Islamic societies might be a result of the Islam and its teachings?

About Islamophobia. There are two problems with the word (not counting the incorrect association with the word fear from the Greek phobia).
1. This term confuses hostility toward Islam as a religion or ideology with hostility toward Muslims as individuals. The former is a valid point of view; dislike of Islam because of its teachings and how it is practiced is a completely understandable and intellectually valid position based upon its doctrines and current events
2. The use of this word provides an excuse for Muslims to blame others for their problems and to avoid critical thinking. To consider the actions of Muslims, or even more so, the doctrines of Islam, as a source of Islamophobia would require that Muslims consider each of these and evaluate these in terms of moral values and basic human rights.

I am always ready for 'meaningful conversation' with Muslims, but these have been few and far between -- but not because I haven't tried.

kactuz

IMPORTANT MESSAGE....

I'm posting this message from Patrick Soockhdeo here also .

He is a gentle, reserved, quiet, loving Pastor, who was originally brought up in Islam.
He speaks with truth, wisdom and balance and compassion.

He was involved in fighting the 'Hate Speech' laws in UK which he believes will come back. (The Muslims openly admitted they would have protected Mohammad/Islam from any criticism)

His knowledge is probably unparalleled in the West today about the history and growth, and mindset of Islam/Muslims, hence he is an international speaker on the subject. He was brought to Australia under strict secrecy and security, but this talk was given in the USA...please note the questions and answers.

http://www.chbcaudio.org/podpress_trac/web/276/0/04-09-07.mp3

Boaz, a good post indeed. Worth listening, all 1hr 10 min of it. Although he is not a Christian, Ibn Warraq (ex-Pakistani Muslim) came to the same conclusion as Patrick Soockhdeo about fundamentalist Islam.

“The root cause of Islamic fundamentalism is Islam. What on earth has American foreign policy got to do with the stoning to death of a woman for adultery in Nigeria?”

“Western Liberals are used to searching for external explanations for behaviour that they cannot comprehend; but I can assure them that Hitler’s behaviour cannot be put down to the Treaty of Versailles or the economic situation in the twenties or thirties. Evil is its own excuse.”

“Or one might ask why Saudi Arabia allows no Christian churches on its soil, when the desert kingdom feels free to pump some $3 billions a year into building mosques and subsidizing Imams and proselytizing their puritanical Wahhabi sect of Islam.”
http://www.islam-watch.org/IbnWarraq/Islamic-Enlightenment.htm

Conversation between a Muslim and a non-Muslim can start only when Muslims can share a meal of pork ribs and drink beer with non-Muslims without feeling they are un-Islamic. Otherwise, close down all the mosques and madrasahs which is the fount of all the venomous hatred of non-Muslims

Thanks BD for the audio link - very timely indeed. Let's hope many will get a chance to hear it and digest it. I am personally circulating it to all my key contacts.

Patrick's prophetic messages have fallen on deaf ears before... from the military to foreign aid etc… often with dire consequences.

Interesting point about how our very freedoms and democracy are the thing working against us. We cannot control the infiltration nor the propagation of Islam into our system, from the immigration departments to education, and of course the mushrooming of mosques and madrassas everywhere... not to mention boot camps and youth gyms…
Cheap housing loans are also offered here, Islamic schools are free to run their own curriculum, hospitals and Universities have to comply too (ablution, dietary, no crosses or symbols in chapels, etc)

I believe Shari'a is alive and striving in Sydney South/West. You mentioned Hillali's polygamous existence - I heard it before and believe it to be true.

Polygamy is a well known fact in Islamic circles, same as inheritance law, divorce, all done in the mosque under our noses… I was told by a politician that as long as they obey our laws we don’t want to know how they run their affairs. For example as long as they are “legally” married to one wife at the time, we can’t enforce the law.

Why is our government so inapt in rectifying that problem?
Have we become like the UK and conceded defeat to Islam?
Are we being betrayed by our own government for the sake of dollars and votes?

Join me all in prayers in this holy month of Ramadan