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The Forum > Article Comments > Democracy or the Caliphate > Comments

Democracy or the Caliphate : Comments

By David Long, published 21/8/2007

The West has chosen government of the people, by the people, for the people. Can we convince Islam to reject the divine right of the Caliph?

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I suggest researching more on the Caliphate (Khilafah in Arabic) before making such wide assumptions. Much work has been done on how a future Caliphate would function.

The following short booklet is a starter on the accountability processes within a future Caliphate. These are far superior to the Democratic system.

http://www.khilafah.com/kcom/multimedia/publications/book-accountability-in-the-khilafah.html
Posted by Ambassador, Thursday, 23 August 2007 4:45:29 AM
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Ambassador,

How do you know that a Caliphate would be superior to democracy? Democracy is real and we can test it but the Caliphate is just a theory which exists no where in the world. It's only superior on paper just like the Soviet Unions's Communist Constitution was superior on paper but a disaster in practice. Why should anyone take a risk on a dangerous theory. Face it there is no such thing as a Caliphate and there never will be. You haven't been able to convince any significant population anywhere in the world that it's worth trying. Millions of people struggle each year to reach the democracies but I don't see many people struggling to set up this idiotic Caliphate idea.
Posted by Peppy, Thursday, 23 August 2007 7:16:36 AM
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Contrary to Islamic propaganda, Islam is on the decline worldwide. The numerical growth is mostly biological and not from “conversions”.

Modern technologies, satellite TV, the internet, causes a mass exodus from Islam mainly from the educated strata.

The rest is either living in denial – greatly based on fear and ignorance of their own religion. We call them “moderates”.

The remaining group is grasping onto primitive religious practices (Salafi) resulting in opression and death.

Fundamentalist Christianity has increased in reply to the Islamic mayhem. But a return to Jesus’ teaching cannot be compared to a return to their Islamic prophet...even to the most cynical humanist atheist.

Muslims and especially Women are the victims of their own religion. Shari’a law has never worked. It is fear mongering on the behalf of Men for the benefit of men.

Look at the streets of Iran for example: prostitution, poverty, misery everywhere. BTW most converts to Christianity come from Iran. Exact figures are not possible because of obvious threats to apostates.

Secular Turkey is fighting against a return to Islamic laws – why? because they have tasted freedom (to some extent) and know what's better for Islam.

In Australia, Islamic groups are in damage control mode. They are licking their wounds caused when Australians saw for the first time the true colours of Islam.

The cry for a caliphate is not new – but it is a last resort, a safety net to contain the haemorrhage (without treating the cancer).

Full on Jihad on all fronts has simply not achieved the “Bin Ladens” dream for: World Islamisation.

Islam needs maturity where the “moderates” can finally have a voice to point out the faults of their own religion to their blindfolded fundamentalist Imams… without risking their life.

Democracy is their only avenue for free expression. Let us help them do it.

If not...Muslims will have to continue to suffer and be the plague of the world. Until Islam is finally scrutinised and it’s so called “sacred texts” exposed, the world will have to suffer.
Posted by coach, Thursday, 23 August 2007 11:20:39 AM
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I broadly agree with Coach's post, but why not also make the call to get out of Islamic countries to allow democracy to flourish? The death of democracy normally comes during 'national emergencies', when law and civil government is suspended. If we want to free Islamic countries from internal repression, we need to remove the external repression. Nothing increases the popularity of a dictator than a perceived external threat, let alone a real one. How long would the Caliphate last in societies free from imperialism, with the Internet piping freedom into every home?

Come on guys, you are demonising Islam to defend your war booty. I and others will only take you seriously when you attack the problem, not the symptom.

Earthrise.
Posted by Earthrise, Thursday, 23 August 2007 12:50:33 PM
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In the “The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam”, Muhammad Iqbal argued for a Islamic state for Indian Muslims along the lines of a Caliphate. Colonial India was partioned along religious lines according to the wishes of the Muslims.

About a million Hindus and Sikhs were butchered by the Muslims immediately after Pakistan was founded. After killing Chrsitians, Ahmadis, and other non-Muslims, the Muslims in Pakistan turned on each other. Sunnis kill Shias and vice versa.
http://www.thepersecution.org/ai/aius1110pk.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5413680.stm

Muslims are inspired by the Koran to perpetually fight and kill non-Muslims, as many trouble spots in different parts of the world between Islam and other faiths show the violent nature of Islam.

[Fight non-believers 9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Kill non-believers 4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.]

The call for a world-wide Caliphate is an open declaration of war against non-Muslims. This time the non-Muslims are not waiting to be slaughtered, they will fight back. Be warned, Muslims are not just fighting the West, other non-Muslims all over the world are tired of putting up with Islam.
Posted by Philip Tang, Friday, 24 August 2007 4:09:38 AM
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AMBASSADOR is EVIL....... ? he refers us to a web site which basically is telling us we should all submit to an Islamic Caliphate and assures us that our rights (such as are allowed under Islam) would be protected.

HAH ! yes... like women being HALF the value of a man in court...

Ambassador.. please comment on this ?

Did you watch CNN "Gods Muslim Warriors" last night ? (They had Gods Jewish the previous night and 2night they have Gods Christians)

The Iranian women who has been a lawyer for 35 yrs and a judge and won the Nobel Prize... is only worth HALF of a man in court.

QUESTIONS..

-Is this Sharia law ? (yes)
-On what is it based ? (Hadith)
-Does this mean hadith is a foundation of Islamic law ? (yes)
-Does this mean that the other hadith can be viewed as 'authoritative' ? (yes)
-So this means the Hadith about many unsavory things like "take a young girl (down to 9 yrs age) RATHER than a mature women, so you can enjoy playing with her" (while you are 50ys + in age) is valid ? (yes)

AMBASSADOR remember how the Arabs sent back the head of the Ambassador of Genghis Khan ? I hereby send the HEAD of Sharia law back to you, in a basket, bloodied and dead.

The 'decadent' west has nothing on 'MUCH MORE decadent' Sharia law.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 24 August 2007 7:12:39 AM
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