'But Israel's crimes do not, under any circumstances, justify hatred of the Jewish race...

So many might-have-beens. None of which justifies racial hatred. Even today, opportunities remain open for justice. Better to sieze them than to dwell on whose hatred is worthy.'

Xoddam is just so accurate and I fully agree.

And it is opinions such as Paul L's that prevent peace.

I'd wager Paul L, if he's even thought about them, supports Israel retaining the illegal Israeli settlements in Palestine and the illegal annexation of Palestinian land by the 'peace serving' wall.

This article is insane! You are a denier of reality! Hitler got the idea about putting the Star of David to identify Jews from Islamic history!

NOBODY BELIEVES YOU.

I am truly sick and tired of hearing Islam means peace. Mohammed Haneef thought he needed to spell this out at a press conference, which says it all really.

The word peace in English doesn't have the same connotations of peace in Islam. In Islam it means 'submission', 'surrender', not peace as westerners understand it.

Why aren't we allowed to be critical of Islam without getting death threats, or charges of intolerance? The former proves Islam isn't peaceful, and the latter is insane given all people like me want to do is point out intolerance where it actually exists. How dare it be such that one can say it is peaceful and people are in such fear that we can't even respond truthfully!

Why aren't we allowed to mock Islam for it's values, of ordering the death of apostates? Or homosexuals? Why can't we harrass Saudi Arabia for not allowing even one church on it's soil? How can people not see how violent and intolerant Islam is?

Why aren't Muslims protesting for the equal treatment of non-Muslims in their societies?

Where are the media publications mocking Islamic figures like the father of the Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Khoemeini, an immoral paedophile who lowered the age of consent in Iran to just nine for girls, because he wanted to emulate the Prophet who actually had a six year old wife?

These assertions are all within the sacred Islamic texts themselves, yet they still revere him. It's madness.

Islam has to answer to reason. Until it does, at which point I believe it will collapse, Islamic supremacism - which, far from starting on 9/11 has been around for 1400 years, will always be knawing away at the civilised western world.

If you really care about how Arabs are percieved, start protesting about FGM, honour killings, how your youth form ethnic packs and bash 'skips', and arranged marriages (XENOPHOBIC to the core).

I pity you.

High praise indeed from you, Paul!

Until Israel renounces terror, I am merely saddened -- not surprised -- that a few nutcases choose death over enduring humiliation. I offer no apologies for the brutal and desperate act of suicide bombing.

The actions of a purportedly democratic state, on the other hand, should be and are subjected to public scrutiny. Documenting the brutality of the instruments of state is *not* an apologia for the enemies of that state, but an act of peace.

Precisely because Israel is (selectively) democratic, public scrutiny and activism has made Israel's policies and weapons somewhat less lethal over time: from machine guns to bulldozers, rubber (-coated steel) bullets to sand dollars, the death toll of the occupation is declining. For some years now Israeli soldiers have been under unofficial orders to *injure*, not kill, Palestinians who stand in their way. Yet as you acknowledge, it is inevitable that some die.

The targetted individuals are not all "terrorists", but also activists (including several foreigners -- regrettably but inevitably their deaths are better documented than the average Palestinian's), reporters, and community leaders. Of course these victims aren't maimed or killed by the same squads of "hitmen" sent after belligerent leaders of armed organisations, but by nominally "non-lethal" weapons like rubber bullets and bulldozers. The right tool for the job, I suppose.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1030-05.htm

Would you like me to praise Israel for its policy of selectively assassinating known opponents, armed and unarmed, rather than simply slaughtering suspects and bystanders en masse?

I suppose I can acknowledge it's a lesser war-crime. Yet due process (without the death penalty) would be far preferable!

Yet Israel's idea of due process, as applied to non-citizen Palestinians, is laughable:

http://www.addameer.org/detention/background.html

(Especially when contrasted with Israel's response to hostage-taking of two professional soldiers in Lebanon last year).

Part One

We could begin by declaring that a Reborn Israel is an example of how America, a Christian nation that is now unipolar and virtual ruler of the globe, has relied more on sheer power, rather than a democratic balance of global power.

For example, it could be said that American support for the re-birth of Israel has not only created problems with the Arabs from the beginning of Jewish re-settlement but the existence of the reborn Israel will create endless concerns in the future,

A small section of British authority foresaw the above after WW2 when the persecuted Jews mostly from Germany after the Nazi Death Camps requested that they permanently settle back in Jerusalem after more than two thousand years.

Unreasonably, there was no plebiscite allowed for the Arabs who had believed it had become an Arab possession with Jewish families allowed to live peacefully among them.

Indeed, it has been suggested that the Jewish families could have been filtered into the United States, as well as the former British Commonwealth of Nations, where they have become so respected and admired.

But once the revived state of Israel was set up by still a somewhat reluctant British government, it was obvious the Arabs would not be happy.

At the same time Britain stood by perplexed when soon after the revived Jewish state came into being and with the Arabs already angrily massing, the canny US Foreign Minister, Henry Kissinger began shipping planes and tanks to Israel, while at the same time trying to calm the Arabs.

Then came the two short wars separated by a number of years, the new Israelis with military like determination and American equipment, both times had the Arabs on the run, the new reborn Israelis not only victorious, but extending Israel into Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

We have thus a small nation comprised of intelligent - bound to be proud - people undemocratically letting a virtually worn-out religious doctrine upset the democratic balance of power in today’s Middle East.

I'd bet Keith believes Israeli's should just pack up and go home.

I do not understand how any fair minded person could look at the predicament of either the Palestinians or the Israelis and not see that both have suffered terribly.

The Israeli's blame the Palestinians and retaliate.

The Palestinians blame the Israeli's and retaliate.

This is a cycle that has no end.

It is just plain stupid.

Blame is easy. Just selectively pick the bits of history that suit your purpose. Both sides have committed plenty of attrocities from which to choose. All of you who perpetuate this thinking by ranting about how it's all one side's fault or the other are either stupid. Or motivated by malice because you don't want to see an end to the cycle. Your a part of the problem.

It is honestly sad to see how few people in any of the many threads on this subject are even interested in discussing solutions.

Opinions such as mine prevent peace? Its opinions such as your which stifle debate. I was just pointing out the one sidedness of the criticisms of Israel that is typical of the soft left, while they neglect the repulsive acts of the Palestinian suicide bombers.

I am fully aware of Israeli attempts to extend their borders using settlements. They were especially active in the 70’s and 80’s as pre 1967 the Israeli state was less than 8kms across at its narrowest point. At that stage there was significant support for the idea of strategic enlargement of the country. The idea was to prevent an Arab army driving to the sea and cutting Israel in half thereby bringing about the fall of the state. This came to include strategic settlements emplaced by General Sharon in order to give Israel a ‘defensible border’. Syria used the Golan Heights to rocket and shell Israeli towns and cities until the Israeli army captured it. Hafez Assad, then Syria's Defense Minister declared: “The time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." Those words should sound familiar because Muslim leaders still make remarks like that today. I do not support Israel retaining settlements outside the pre 1967 borders.

As for the wall, it is temporary and is not a claim of sovereignty. Where possible, negotiation with village chiefs on the location of the wall was carried out. Elsewhere new roads and access point were built for Palestinians to ease the burden. Those whose land was subsumed receive annual compensation although where possible the wall was built on state land. The final borders will only be decided by negotiation between the parties. The wall has however been a successful in its reduction of terror attacks inside Israel.

Blaming the Israelis for the current state of affairs is one eyed and counterproductive. I’m all for peace in Israel/Palestine, I just get sick of hearing the soft lefties flagellating the western world for our supposed crimes and blaming us for all the trouble in the world, whilst totally ignoring the far more extreme behaviour of the terrorists