HRS, "That would be femcrime, and the author could be thrown out of feminism." - maybe time to read some different feminist authors rather than just the extremists. Yes there are feminists who don't like men, yes there are feminists who I think have some pretty basic misunderstandings about the world but there are also feminists who are serious about actual equality.

You harm your own case by making out as though feminism was unusually uniform, you harm your case by making out the extreme portions of feminism represent the norm.

Get hold of Patricia Pearson's "When She Was Bad" read it and come back and comment on the uniformity in feminism.

Over the years I've been reading and posting on OLO I've come across some really great people who happen to be feminists. I've had some significant disagreements with some and we have generally got over it and moved on. Most have been decent reasonable people wanting a fair go for their gender.

I've never seen any who were as obsessed and focussed on putting down the mens movement as some of you are at putting down feminism. The few who seemed to hate like that don't seem to last long.

You do far more harm than good with the obsessive hatred of feminism. Maybe time for you to say some good things about moderate feminists, those who accept equality in responsibility as well as rights.

R0bert

Robert,
I have rarely found a feminist who is not extremist, but feminists get away with so much by hiding behind the smokescreen of “equality”. There is no equality in feminism.

If the beliefs of feminism were applied to a race or religion, then it would be regarded as extreme discrimination. If it was said or inferred that because a very small percentage (0.2%) of the members of a race or religion were criminals, then all members of that race or religion were criminals, then this would be regarded as extreme discrimination.

But it is being said or inferred that because 0.2% of men are in jail, then all men are criminals.

In recent times various feminists on OLO have said or inferred that men vote for female politicians based on their sex appeal, that men only think of “work, sex and sport”, and now that men are “elephants”, and that men are criminals.

This has come from very mainstream feminists and not fringe feminists, but I can’t remember anything positive being said about men by these non-gender prejudiced and non-discriminatory feminists.

It reminds me of how the Nazis went about their discrimination of the Jews

R0bert

‘I've never seen any [feminists] who were as obsessed and focussed on putting down the mens movement as some of you are at putting down feminism. The few who seemed to hate like that don't seem to last long.’

Thank you. Your words are music to the eyes. And I have seen this phenomenon during my experience with women’s organisations. Women who have an axe to grind about men don’t last long in feminist groups, which are much more focussed on the gender politics of the wider society. The ongoing projections and bitternesses of individuals are better addressed through psychological counselling, not feminism.

Ena

I also want to put my hand up, along with you, as a proud feminist who has been happily married to a wonderful man for over 20 years. In fact, I consider my feminism to be an important reason for the happiness in my marriage, because it allowed both my husband and myself to see beyond the gender roles and prejudices of our respective upbringings to enable us to achieve a respectful long-term partnership.

Cornflower

Where, oh, where are you getting this idea that I advocate a male genetic predisposition to violence? Certainly not from any of my posts. I have made no comments along these lines at all. In fact, I unambiguously defended myself against your accusation in my previous post and included a quote that I had formerly made, claiming the very opposite – that only about one per cent of men make up the male criminal population. I too have sometimes misread people’s posts, but at least I make the effort to apologise if my error is clearly pointed out to me. If you don’t wish to play by that rule, then please don’t respond to my posts at all.

BOAZ_David

‘I think the high degree of male suicide is related to the loss of "male" identity due to the rise of 'feminism' and political correctness.’

Death by political correctness is an interesting idea! But seriously, if men have lost any sense of identity, there are many issues to identify other than PC and feminism, such as:

• the decline of male-dominant manufacturing and rural occupations in most Western countries, with the mechanisation of agriculture and the transferring of their industrial sectors offshore
• massive corporate downsizing and re-organising since the early 80s, leading to mass lay-offs and considerable personal suffering – particularly among men, who have been the traditional breadwinners
• the corresponding rise of the service sector in Western countries, which tends to favour traditionally ‘female’ domains such as caring/human relations over traditional ‘male’ domains such as competition and physical strength.

Also, in terms of Australia’s suicide rates, according to one (fairly typical) study, although male suicides outnumber female suicides four to one, for every completed male suicide there are five attempts and for every completed female suicide there are 35 attempts. The most common suicide methods for men are firearms and hanging, while the most common methods for women are poisoning and carbon monoxide. http://www.wesleymission.org.au/publications/r&d/suicide.htm

My take on this is that the despair that drives people to suicide is not that much greater for men than for women. Men tend to ‘successfully’ suicide in much greater numbers than women partly because they use more immediate, effective methods, whereas women use slower methods which allow more opportunity for a third-party intervention or a change of heart.

I don’t mean to trivialise the importance of the male suicide rate – however, I am sceptical of the extent to which it is emphasised by those who seek to use it as a weapon against feminism.

Or it might have something to do with media socialisations and the portrayal of men as useless clumsy simpletons. I notice that the commercials and shows on the television are getting worse in this regard. Children getting what? Upwards of six hours of tele per day. Talk about a subliminal message. Girls are brilliant boys are inadequate. Lovely message from your local equalatist.

HRS, I think I've been more heavy handed in that last post than I would prefer to be. Right now I've not thought of a better way of phrasing what I said but I don't like the intensity of the post. I may have the grumpy pants on at the moment. Sorry if I've phrased the post more offensively than it needs to be.

If you want a more clear target join me in the general discussion threads and a discussion of the treatment of violence against men in advertising as funny. Some interesting viewpoints and attitudes have been expressed. Might have something to do with the social attitudes which make men more likely to be incarcerated especially the one about men not hanging around with women tougher than themselves as a solution DV where the victim is male.

I still think that there are many more moderate feminists than you realise and I believe that some of the issues facing men in todays society would be much better served by working with them than against.

R0bert