Is this where I'm 'spose to go "OH! phew, that's ok then...so long as they aren't affiliated with Al Qaeda!"

I think the reference at the bottom sums it up.

"First published in Eureka Street on July 11, *20007*."

To the author of this article PART I -

It is important to understand, however, that foremost in the minds of many of these students, and parents, is defending Islam, not killing non-Muslims: something which, for some, becomes necessary in their “endeavours”."
That is pathetic. How does killing on mass innocent people ever become necessary? Even the US and British armies, while constantly criticized for killing innocent civilians, try their hardest to avoid killing innocent people and when they do it usually because the enemy deliberately place themselves in amongst the civilians so that when the US or British do inevitabley kill or maim innocent civilians then they can use it for their PR campaigns and give it to CHomsky and Pilger for their "reliable" statistics.

"Before extremists commit an act of violence, it is not easy to distinguish them from other Muslims."
Yes, this is precisely the problem: most Muslims have the same ideology of racism and hate, and due to a supremicism in their attitude their cultures remain desolate as they don't like to absorb foreign ideas and cultures the way that the Europeans did when they absorbed the Ancient Greek and Roman science and culture and then added their own to it.

To the author of this article PART II -

"JI has generally been described as linked to al-Qaida. It is questionable how true this might be."
You at least admit that "There may be ideological sympathy on the part of JI for al-Qaida". There doesn't need to be any actual financial link with other groups such as al-Qaida, since they all have the same violently (and vile) anti-Western philosophy based, not on genuine issues of morality as they claim (because immorality in terms of crime and corruption is higher in their cultures and countries than it is in the West- this is why the West has medicare, the dole, democracy, due process, help for the homeless and mentally ill whereas in all Muslim nations these things don't exist , because they are generally immoral, selfish, and have no empathy - no regard for others) but simple hatred and racsim of the "other" due to a strong tribal metality that is bred in the very philosophy of Islam. Just look at any major Islamic figure (especially the Prophet himself) and you will see that disrespect for others (dimmhitude and jidza for e.g., or kafir being tantamount to dirt, urine and feaces as is written in the holy books of Islam). Until we in the West start to realize that it isn't a matter of trying to understand the cell structures of these terrorists or whether this group is similar to that group, but that these people are driven by extreme hate, racism, fuelled by their Islamic supremecist attitudes which result in a severe jealousy of Western culture and its achievements. This is especially true since Islam sees itself as at least an equal in history to the West, and now due to the pressures of globalization and increased communication networks, many Islamic people have awoken to the fact that their culture and civilization has no achievements of its own, and they are driven mad with hatred and fury.

I think this leftwing author is getting a bit misty eyed about what she sees as a femininist supported nationalist JI collective.

Many in JI senior leadership appear to have trained in al Qaeda (AQ) (shoot and bomb) camps in Afghanistan.

Much of the money for JI weapons comes from Saudi benefactors who willingly pay more to some Islamic schools than is required for normal school expenses... Many of these Saudi are not card carrying members of AQ (few admit their preferences) but their extremist form of Salafist Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi dovetails with AQ's aims. So these Saudi benefactors wholesomely and legally fund Jihad through funding radical Islamic schools.

AQ presents a glamourous international example for stay at home JI bombers to be. AQ's loose leadership know that al Qaeda as an organisation lacks the strength to achieve its goals of ending infidel influence in Muslim lands and overthrowing the "corrupt" regimes ruling them.

So AQ more directly operates through the media (eg bin Laden promos), Mecca returnees and the internet (eg. how to be a Jihadi sites) to influence JI members in Indonesia.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

I don't gain the impression that the author is seeking to minimize the significance of JI in the big picture of things. She has not suggested that they are 'ok' either idealogically or socially. She is simply questioning the financial link.

Be that right or wrong, it should not be our major concern.

OUR MAJOR CONCERN should be, and in my case definitely is, the ideas which drive them and underpin their objectives.

Notice though, that they are patterned after the early muslims, and Mohammad.

*It is important to understand, however, that foremost in the minds of many of these students, and parents, is defending Islam, not killing non-Muslims: something which, for some, becomes necessary in their “endeavours”.*

What she fails to point out though, is the 'method' used by Mohammad to 'defend' Islam.

-Political assasinations of convenience. (Ka'b bin Al Ashraf & others)
-Pre-emptive raids of aggression. (Bani Al Nadir,Khaibar Jews and numerous others)
-Summary executions of those who mocked him when he was weak.(Leaders of Quraysh after a battle.... his cruelty is what triggered Ka'b bin al Ashraf to begin seditious alliances against him, so he also murdered Ka'b)
-Mass Murder of at least one tribe who opposed him. (Banu Qurayza)

METHOLOLOGY. This is very important to identify. 'Family Links'

Exactly as Mohammad did it. His top general and ally Abu Bakr who became the first caliph, -Mohammad married his child daughter at 9.
The same pattern of 'marriage for alliance' is seen in Omar (2nd Caliph) and Mohammads family ties.

So, I hope our federal police are up to speed on this, and look along family connections, marriage relationships etc.. of Indonesians in Australia who have even the slightest connection to JI.

Yes, I am so relieved to hear that, so what do I expect next, Madras’s or Marxoid Indoctrination for my children?

Who gives a woopy do; at this point it is only poignant to note, they don’t like Infidels and Kaffers and have a very nasty way of fulfilling their murderous ritual with inhuman deeds- Marxoids have never cornered that market; (For those that complain about John Howard should do some more hunting for news releases);and which Islamic entity is funding it ?; probably – most definitely Saudi Arabia.

White Warlock

"Yes, this is precisely the problem: most Muslims have the same ideology of racism and hate, and due to a supremicism in their attitude their cultures remain desolate as they don't like to absorb foreign ideas and cultures the way that the Europeans did when they absorbed the Ancient Greek and Roman science and culture and then added their own to it."

I hate to say this but it was the Christians who threw away the ancient Greek and Roman science and culture and the Muslims who reintroduced them. The Muslims also added and developed the numbering system (Arab numerals) and developed algebra.

Dear "Logic", (PART I)

you say : " hate to say this but it was the Christians who threw away the ancient Greek and Roman science and culture and the Muslims who reintroduced them. The Muslims also added and developed the numbering system (Arab numerals) and developed algebra."

So? I never said that they don't have inventions or have never added anything to the world. If it came out that way I apologize. What I meant is obvious, so it is strange that you refer to yourself as Mr/Mrs Logic. And yes, the Muslim world did inherit the ancient Greek texts that were in the Eastern Roman empire, which was conquered and converted by brutal Islamic expansion. The West eventually did absorb this knowledge, nobobdy else.

Foolishly, the West, due to religion, had no use for many books during the dark ages (although this "darkness" was never absolute, the monasteries always studied Aristotle. I am sure they still had Ancient texts also and not just the Muslims). However, the defining difference is that, whilst the Muslim world has never taken science seriously, eventually the Western world actually read the texts, studied them and then added MUCH on top. A few examples of this, since you seem to have no idea, are the ENlightenment; the Scientific revolution and the industrial revolution; modern European music such as Bach, Mozart etc.; every invention from the Wheel, tv, computers, phones, electricity, cars, space travel, planes and soooo much more.

To "Logic", (PART II)

The muslims never "reintroduced" anything. Prove me wrong. Like the dark ages of Christianity, Muslims today even are still closed minded, bigoted, and fearful of everything. This means that they - as a people - can only be destitute, poor, and franlky, stupid and uncreative.

It is obvious that you are also, painfully aware of this fact also, as you seem awfully eager to grant credit where it is not due. Imagine if a scientist came up with a brilliant invention and wrote it down, got a courier to take it to his superiors, but then suddenly died. Would it be fair or even sane to grant the merit for the discovery to the courier? The Islamic world was no more than a courier of SOME (not all of the Greek knowledge, only some) of this ancient knowledge, which for a while the West ignored due to religious ignorance. Now it is only the Islamic world that still is religiously ignorant, and it serves no justice to lie about this fact, especially to those who live in the middle of the Islamic Dark ages.

White Warlock

I shudder when I read what you say. You cannot mean it, Muslim mathematicians invented the zero and algebra, corner stones of mathematics and physics. It is hard to see how our modern world could have existed without that.

As well they produced outstanding architecture and showed an incredible grasp of engineering principles.

If you know anything about music, most of our musical instruments evolved from Arabic ones brought back by the fascinated Crusaders. The oboe, violin, guitar, percussion and bagpipes are all Arabic in origin. It is reasonable to suggest that Muslims produced more inventions in the middle ages than did the Christions.

Dream on, Plagiarised would be closer, besides you will need to read The Hadiths and that will pretty well disperse your argument.

Makes you wonder how the Ancient Egyptians got on , - or Incas with engineering, ooo bugger, that was thousands of years before Mohammad and his cronies started ripping heads off.

Most of their Advancements Alleged were learnt from India, and was also learnt from Jews- Christians during their early Occupation of Spain in the Universities. Even then, Islamic primitive tribalism dictated; and never-ending death bells sounding;
And to state otherwise is just fallacious fantasy.