Boaz,
“ What I find outrageous, is that FH and IRF seek to discredit Ali the 'person' in order to discredit what she stands for in regard to Islamic practice RATHER...than condemning the fact that she is in need of 24/7 security guards to protect her from..”

I sympathise with her freedom to express herself while stand by my comment above. The problem is this: anyone who ever alienated a large group is likely to have few death threats and abuses. Mel Gibson is a recent example re his movie and alcoholic outburst. Its usually used as a marketing tool to sell more tickets, books, etc..25 years on, salman rushdie and his death threats are still there selling more books. I support and sympathise with freedom of expression, freedom of choice and constructive criticism. I don’t sympathise with stupidity.

On the intellectual level, there is nothing there to discredit. Her recent actions discredited her as an intellect. Just watch the BBC world interviews. For some reason few people in the Aussie media like to market discredited European left-overs as cutting edge intellects.

“Hizb Ut Tahrir” there is probably about 200-300 followers who believe the Hiz Ut Tahrir ideals and they are mostly teenage arabs. How can that be a reflective sample of Muslims in Australia Boaz?
Let me guess: you studied drama at school.

“Democracy preserved and guided by the Judo-Christian”

No one can explain what’s the meaning of ‘Judo-Christian” not even the yanks who came up with it. Stick with the next wave: something more catchy like islamoBuddism, Orthodox Atheism, Shiaa Mormons, : -)
I bet you are fun as a dinner guest, are you allergic to Lamb or halal food?

Peace,

Yep. Here we are.
Pamela Bone's replacement at the newspaper best identified with the government slander of aboriginals locally and more to the point, the obnoxious Jewish lobby that thrives off mudslinging against Islam.
And in this context, we see the real reasons for the promotion of yet another "safe" conservative "lip gloss feminist", Hirsuit Ali. She is just one element, admittedly telegenic and attractive to semi-literate tory middle class women, nonetheless of a wider propaganda campaign conducted for the takeover of the middle east and its oil by an alliance of Israelists and US neo-con big business.
To acheive the discrediting of Islam and thus mid-eastern resistance to Western domination, the old conflation of African tribalism as universal Muslim practice is trotted out, yet again.
Yet had the Islamic world been invited into the modern world after ww2 instead of being exploited and impoverished for the most selfish of reasons involving personal gain by the west, the older and more conservative traits would have perchance dissolved. Rather, driven and reinforced under stress of constant war, humiliation and poverty the old tribal thinking has taken hold nad become the mideastern version of hansonism,which we know is also driven out of fear created by destructive "change".
Clearly Szego is a modern Goebbelsian. Its just that her victims are the "Ewige" Muslims, the modern victims, rather than the "Ewige Juden" of an earlier era.
I loath the Jewish lobby and the Western propaganda tabloid press, and their cowardice and lies, fed through their sociopathic stooges.

About immigration fraud... Ali Hirsi is just being honest.

Perhaps Muslims here should consider a 12May1998 BBC report 'Marriages made for money' about sham weddings used by immigrants to enter England. There is also a 7February1999 Guardian article called "Silence of the imams, while another child dies" how young Muslim girls are sent back to Pakistan and basically auctioned to husbands who marry them to get to England.

The infamous Jyllandsposten has a 19April2005 article tracking 321 asylumseekers (for 'persecution’) in Denmark since 1990. 312 of them had returned to vacation or get married, 238 of them were on welfare, 135 were convicted of crimes, of their 110 children 62 been convicted of crimes. Family reunification statistics were not recorded but…

A Dutch group, Advisory Committee on Aliens Affairs (ACVZ), has a study 'Left behind against their will' about abandoned women are taken from Europe and left in Morroco, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan and Iran , as their husbands often find and bring in replacements.
Norwegian blogger 'Oslo Girl' wrote about the abuse of asylum rules and the 'disturbingly lenient family reunion laws' among certain (?) communities. In Sweden, asylum and chain-immigration have moved this country to the edge of civil unrest. Do a search for 'Malvo, rape, immigration' on Internet if you don't believe me.

The abuse of the asylum laws by immigrants in Europe, both legal and illegal - is wellknown. Immigrants even admit they lied to gain asylum. The best studies were done in Denmark, leading to the toughest immigration/integration policies in Europe. Most countries ignore the problem.

Ali Hirsi was honest, yet people here call her a fraud because she told the truth, which is more than I can say about people that love and respect Islam’s prophet. I wonder if I will ever see the day a Muslim is honest about the hate and violence in the Quran, and the vile things done by Mohammad as recorded in Islam’s own writings. Oh yes, about Rushdie… Why don’t Muslims denounce Tabari, the great Muslim writer? He, not Rushdie, reported the matter of the Satanic Verses.

Kactuz

feminists *do* protest loudly against female genital mutilation. western feminists work together with feminists within the relevant culture to bring an end to this misogynist practice. feminists *do* work solidly against (dis)honour killings. western feminists work together with feminists within the relevant culture to bring an end to this misogynist practice.

odd, the tendency within the media to assert what feminists do or don't do (mostly an assertion as to the latter) vis-a-vis issues relating to culturally-backed misogyny. i am bound to ask with whom do they speak and whom do they observe in this 'all-seeing' contention that 'feminists don't' abhor, and together with their feminist sisters from whatever cultural background, speak out against violence against women and misogynist practices wherever they occur, and within whatever culture. we do - abhor, speak out against, support and work together with our feminist sisters on this as on other issues - in *all* cultures.

note (for the author of the article) the netherlands labor party is not a feminist organisation nor under the control of, or representing, feminists. contrary to the implication of the article, feminists in the netherlands have a huge commitment, in time, effort, resources, housing etc and efforts for institutional change, in respect of supporting and providing refuge for women pursued by men intent on (dis)honour killings.

Kaktuz,

"Ali Hirsi was honest, yet people here call her a fraud because she told the truth"

Please watch this TV interview and tell us again she is 'honest and truthful'
** Former Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali **
Caught up in a row over her Dutch citizenship, Somali-born former Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali has left the Netherlands.
< http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_5160000/newsid_5167300?redirect=5167376.stm&news=1&nbwm=1&nbram=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1 >
As for your comment re Tabari, it took you two years to agree with my comment below :-).
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4133#31117

Peace,

Fellow Human,
I've just watched the BBC news article you provided a link for. If anything I am now more impressed with Ali Hirsi Hasaan, than I was after reading her book 'The Infidel'. Your contention that she is a liar and therefore nothing she says is valid is fatuous. I have enough compassion to understand why someone might lie in order to escape an arranged marriage. I don’t think that these lies in any way detract from her central message that Islam is stuck in the dark ages and needs to be reformed. The BBC interviewer was unfair in pretending that Ali would have been safe in Kenya or in Germany, as the large Somali communities there surely have seen her and reported this to her father or proposed husband. Because you have no answer to her legitimate points you attack her personally

As for Fun Guy, you have the temerity to call Ali Hirsi Hasaan a lip gloss feminist. Have you read her book or do you believe that because she lied on her immigration application nothing she says is valid. This courageous woman suffers real death threats, one staked through the chest of a colleague, in order to bring her message to those most in need. I sincerely doubt you have had to suffer through anything like what Ali had to endure, genital mutilation, death threats, exile from her family, her sisters suicide etc.
I am not of any faith, have no Jewish ancestry and I don’t read the tabloid press. How then has this supposed Zionist/Capitalist/Religious conspiracy influence me. Resort to conspiracy theories rather than debating ideas and you lose credibility.