While I certainly agree that there needs to be a clear separation between science and religion, that doesn’t mean that science is without ethical considerations. Since most people tend to build their ethical framework in religious contexts, this issue is rather problematic. People like Brian Holden with their rigid intolerance towards others only aggravate the debate.

As for his article, I found the blatant anti-Catholicism that permeates it like the stench of a rotten egg, to be totally distasteful.

If the cloning of embyros is considered killing, should the "mother" and people who destroy spare embyros be charged with murder?, if there was a power strike and frozem embyros melted should should the srikers be charged with manslaughter?, if a truck smashed into a substation and cut off the power and melted the embyos should the driver be charged with manslaughter?.
Should w@nking and sex without the specific reason of reproduction be outlawed?, as both of these are killing sperm which as the potential to become a human or 5 million humans.
Please read this carefully before you start jumping up and down and abusing me for things I didn't say or mean.

Brian,

I think you draw a long bow when you named your article "Religion has never been good for our health".

My own religion has been advocating not smoking, not drinking coffee or alcohol, eating meat sparingly, and eating foods in their seasons long before there was scientific proof. Since 1833, in fact.

Other religions has beneficial health laws as well.

Perhaps your article could be renamed "Some religious laws are not good for our health"?

Again we see the fruit of fundamentalist humanism in our Aboriginal communities where hundreds if not thousands of kids are being sexually abused. It starts as young as 3 years old. The cry for 'free thinking' which allows pornography, drugs and free sex to be freely available again affects the most vulnerable. And all this just so some selfish adults can demand their rights to view this stuff.

One of the Western Australia's great humanists Jim McGinty has now allowed two men confused about their sexual identity to adopt a poor child. When are we going to stop these 'free thinkers' from destroying the lives of children? These are more warped rather than free thinkers. The most damaging religion is fundamental humanism which denies God and puts humans in His place.

Rubbish, runner, rubbish: this little free thinker has led campaigns for greater police action against illegal drug dealing and for increased state intervention in child abuse, including Aboriginal child neglect and abuse. Free thinkers have ethics too.

You are way off beam in your imaginings about the causes of child sexual abuse.

As for your prejudiced opinion about the permission being given for gays to adopt in WA, it just demonstrates how un-Christ-like some Christians like you can be at times.

I wouldn't mind if most pornography could be effectively banned, and I think that the whiz-kids could and should develop more effective ways of allowing regulation of the internet.

How does that sit with your simplistic, stereotyped view of free thinkers?

Hope your day turns out better for you than it seems to have started.

Dan

The upshot of this entire brouhaha seems to be that, in future, if Cardinal Pell (or indeed any member of the Christian clergy) wishes to avoid a pile of invective, he or she should confine criticisms to Conservative Government policies.