Thanks Victor. Your contribution to this debate is valuable, but why lead off with such a predictable and unnecessary whinge? It does your credibility no good.

ANTaR, the AMA, NACCHO, Oxfam, GetUp et al organise a 12 month campaign to get political parties to commit to increased spending on Indigenous health and education, and when the ALP commits itself your response is to damn them for their imperfections.

Far from being 'opportunism', this strikes me as being the real deal, as have been a lot of the Howard Government's long-term Indigenous health initiatives under Wooldridge and Abbott.

The work (as displayed in the Indigenous platform developed at the Labor National Conference last month) of recent ALP shadow ministers (such as McMullan, Evans and Macklin) does show commitment to 'a sustainable, longitudinal approach to Indigenous affairs and wellbeing.' Are you aware of the detail of their work?

The Labor platform includes a clear pledge to create an independent national auditing mechanism so Indigenous people can begin to hold governments, departments and ministers accountable for meeting agreed goals and measurable outcomes.

The ALP shadow ministers have also been suggesting a non-partisan commitment to basic goals by all parties.

As for the proposed new national body, Labor's platform is clearly committed to a process of consultation and participation with Indigenous leaders over its design and functions. It is absolutely clear that it will be elected by Indigenous people, not appointed by the Government.

Your call for some statements by a united national Indigenous leadership are fair enough, but please give at least some credit where credit is due to people like McMullan, Evans, Macklin, Abbott and Wooldridge.

patriarchal oversight is better than brutal neglect, but self determination is generally better for human beings. can aboriginal communities manage their own lands, and make a living from grazing, mining, and tourism?

or do we have to support another government department?

Dan, you are obviously a member of the glorious Labor party.

and how many Indigenous people/ communities know of these so called bi-partisan approaches?

What are these other than service delivery models and fiscal commitments that any government should be delivering in the first instance. To sing them up as though they are somehow 'revolutionary' is BS.

And so as the author of this piece is asking - If Labor has a model what is it? Or is the democratic engagement of Indigenous people not something Labor thinks is vital? Isn't this the same party that engineered the White Australian policy?

Yes holding governments to account is one thing, but if this means beating them over the head with a feather duster it can hardly be considered as 'holding them to account'.

And lastly, I must just add that McMullin has long been a cynical and worthless advocate for Indigenous people. In fact it was him who described Indigenous affairs as the basket case of portfolios a few years back. The only thing that distinguishes him from the Right are Labor party hacks like you who want to believe otherwise.
Look at him for what he is, a big fat dud.

Victor

With rocks like you around on that footy paddock a few of those pollies are likely to stubb their bloody toes.

Yep it's the political season and bidding wars will take precedence. I think your call for details opportune and realistic. I'd also like to see an improvement on Howards schemes and efforts.

Dan

Yes there have been some good efforts but nothing extraordinary and many of the same old problems thrive. Not a great deal has changed although as Vic pointed out probably the most significant movement has been the change in our attitudes. I like to think we are at least starting, like Reynolds, to 'get it'.

Demos my old mate, you are a sillybilly. We don't 'have to support another government department', because we already have the Commonwealth Office of Indigenous Policy Co-ordination (OIPC) & Indigenous Co-ordinating Centres (ICCs) doing this work.

As for your question about whether 'aboriginal communities [can] manage their own lands, and make a living from grazing, mining, and tourism?' some are already involved in these things, but you must have missed the fact that the vast majority of Aboriginal people don't have grazing land or live in grazing areas (they live predominantly in the major cities and towns); some (but not many) live near mines & some of these work in them; some are involved in tourism, and more could be. However most Aboriginal people live in towns and cities and work in (or aspire to work in) a vast range of conventional occupations, much like the rest of the population.

danf- if they live in towns, assimilated, speaking english, let them be treated as garden variety ozzies. they might need social services as do many disadvantaged communities, but it's not uniquely an aboriginal characteristic, it's because they are poorly educated, and in poverty.

but, if still on ancestral lands, preserving language and culture- give them control of their land.

$260 million to improve the health and education of Indigenous children is I believe only part of Rudds Indigenous Funding Plan.

Given Rudds humanitatian approach ... his faith in the Millennium Development Goals;

http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/

Which ought to also apply to developed countries like Australia...

I hope there is more to come with a sustainable statement that works out how to target a framework with "representations" which include a revised plan of persistence with the State governments.

You are wrong Victor Hart when you say that there are;

"...approximately half a million Indigenous Australians and supporters who would like to know exactly what it looks like..."

I believe with 90% of all Australians voting YES for the 1967 referendum, and given we have some 20 Million people living in Australia today... the sum of people... who want to know what the Rudd ALP Indigenous Peoples Health and Wellbeing Plan looks like could be "approximately" at least 80% or more of this Australian population who are or want to be Indigenous People Supporters.

The problem Victor I believe is to do with "impatiality" - too much "objectiveness" withing the public service and a lack of greater awareness within the Australian public about the social-economic cultural,political and historical barriers which block the process of emancipation for Indigenous people.

In a modern Australia I feel the "impatiality" of the developed world is masking real sensiblity. The problem is to make the connection between our intellectual perception and act with a emotional responsiveness toward the feelings of another. I believe we need a more refined awareness and appreciation in matters of disadvantage and accept quality issues that influence the changes in the present world environment.

http://www.miacat.com/
.

Miacat wrote: "the sum of people... who want to know what the Rudd ALP Indigenous Peoples Health and Wellbeing Plan looks like could be "approximately" at least 80% or more of this Australian population who are or want to be Indigenous People Supporters"

Yes true but would they vote YES to Rudds mysterious plan?

Wanting to know and voting for the rights of Aboriginal people are very different things.

As Noel Pearson said recently 'if you want to commit political suicide throw an Aboriginal issue around your neck'

We don't win votes as have known that for years. The political will by political partys to do the right thing is not something we can rely on to happen. For us this is indicative of something very rotten at the core of Australian liberalism. What do you think Miacat?

The only interest the ALP has in Indigenous issues is to make sure they don’t lose redneck votes by being seen to be soft on blacks. Their only policy prescription they dare fly is that blacks have [=are] problems and they’re gonna fix em.

ie, 'Trust me - I'm from the Opposition'

Persistance makes perfect sense Rainier. If it is all as you say then we cant allow the politicians to not hear what we have to say.

Your comments "The political will by political partys to do the right thing is not something we can rely on to happen. For us this is indicative of something very rotten at the core of Australian liberalism."

And in the spot-light

"ALP has in Indigenous issues is to make sure they don’t lose redneck votes by being seen to be soft on blacks. Their only policy prescription they dare fly is that blacks have [=are] problems and they’re gonna fix em".

I am hoping to see a major shift, and I hope to see more from Rudds Indigenous Funding Startegy.

http://www.miacat.com/
.

Hey Dan, how long ya been a member of the Labor party and which Minister do you fetch sandwiches and coffee for?

I don't mean to offend anybody. For far too long our Indigenous Brothers & Sisters have allow themselves to be trated like Welfare Dependants. Give them a few cents and they will drink themselves to death.

It is time to ensure every child is educated in both Indigenous and Non-Indigenous studies. That every community has a right to education, health and work based in their own community.

Jobs means ensuring that the making of boommerangs in the traditional ways or any other way cannot be carried by a non-indigeous person nor imported from another country for example. That those who live in communities such as Palm Island, Lockhart River etc are encourage to bring in tourist to spend sometime learning about and experiencing the life of Indigenous people in the traditional way. Take a look at the Lost Tribes and you will understand what I mean.

It is time to control your own lives don't be a Welfare Dependant.

Nicely pointed out Victor. How dare Indigenous people ask what this mysterious body might look like. clearly Rudd is edging bets and expousing nothing. Why can't he give Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians an outline? Must Indigenous folks rely on the benevolence of goverment for rights?

Your question of 'where is the national Indigenous voice?' is a haunting one. If there is one it is being drowned out by the meta-narrative of Indigenous leaders of the likes of Pearson and Mundine.
Critical questions need to be asked and acted on and Labour party members should not get defensive, but if concerned, should ask these questions as well.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO ATTACK MY RELATIVES WHO ARE OF ABORIGINAL DESCENT, but anyone who promotes the 1967 con-job referendum to be good to the Aboriginals in my view doesn’t know what he/she is talking about.

On 27-5-2007 the 40th anniversary of the “Aboriginal DOOMSDAY” I published my latest book;

INSPECTOR-RIKATI® on IR WorkChoices Legislation (Book-CD)
A Book about the Validity of the High Courts 14-11-2006 Decision

Here we have Australians conned by the High Court of Australia also. Hence the date for publication.

As a “constitutionalist” at least I understand that Aboriginals are now constitutionally classified as a “coloured race” an “inferior race” not worthy to be equal amongst other Australians.

Now Aboriginals are being discriminated against and can be and no State-Government could validly legislate against me naming them “blackfella” or whatever as the Aboriginals themselves supported the 1967 con-job referendum to have them by this also robbed of “citizenship” and so their “franchise”.

If I were in power I would not spend a cent on Aboriginals, I would spend it on humans and if Aboriginals desire to participate in that then they are included.

To me the equal right of any human is to be able to get appropriate medical care, education and other essential facilities, nothing to do with being an Aboriginal or not!

As my relatives made clear, they themselves find it sickening at times how some Aboriginals are playing the Aboriginal card where as they just want to be treated equally like others and for themselves celebrate their Aboriginal heritage!
With all the noises made by so to say prominent Aboriginals the plight of the poor isn’t any better, and perhaps they ought to learn to just deal with them as humans rather then overplaying the Aboriginal race card to get themselves in well paid positions while the children continue to suffer.

The Commonwealth-of-Australia and so all States are racist as they will remain as long as Subsection 51(xxvi) of the Constitution exist!
The Constitution permits us to be racist! And the 1967 con-job referendum underline this.
Still, personally, I deplore racism.

Racism exist for a number of reasons.

We refer to some people as aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders, as if they come from another planet.

It is time that we remove these terms completely and simply use the term Indigenous Australians or just plain Australians better still.

We can blame Governments for creating people who are dependant on Welfare or the leaders who say it is a case of the White Fella vs the Black Fella. Terms like Black Fella, White Fella are in themselves Racist.

If we cannot work together than Racism will always exist.

How many times do we see children sniffing petrol, paint or glue and no one cares and I mean no one. For the sake of the children act now.

Kev , please make sure they vote . Apathy won't help the cause

Here is a thought - everyone must vote [or have a valid excuse] or lose their social welfare for a month .

It could be possible to enrole all students from 15 on .

Australian politics should be a compulsory subject from 15 on .