Thanks for a balanced response Dinners. Alan seems to create a very funny theology. You make a very important point in regard to Alan wanting indigneous issues to be more important than Christ Himself in the churches. I personally spent the afternoon with many indigneous people (not of the political persuasion) and celebrated a great time of oneness in Christ. Yesterday also happened to coincide with pentecost Sunday. Many Christians I know spent time focussing what people of all nations have that unite us instead of political issues that people like Alan use to try and divide us. In our meeting we had aborigines, africans, aussies, asians and we even let the kiwis in. How this must grate on those seeking division.

West, it has been estimated that the life expectancy of hunter-gatherer tribes was around 30-40 years. The only health study with definitive numbers is the one in the NT, which shows that over the last 40 years, indigenous life expectancies have increased faster than the general population. Whilst it is not conclusive, it is heavily suggestive that thanks to modern medicine (that the indigenous population wouldnt have had without settlement of this country), has assisted in extending lives, despite the western diet taking its toll on health.

I notice that no-one has taken me up on my suggestion of coexistence of modern farming with traditional tribal life (except for your comment BD). Of course it would have its practical problems, but it would also have its benefits for both parties. I pointed out food sources, and I should also note that farmers would benefit from having emu and roo populations controlled on their shared lands. Its also a method of control for rabbit numbers. Its worth a thought...

I understand your concerns about taking over Sorry Day, but apart from that, why are you so opposed to acknowledging Christianity in the public sphere?

runner, so how many of your non white friends were as rich as you?

Rainer I am not sure why you want to know how many of my coloured (other than white friends) are richer than me. If you are measuring it by possessions some have a lot more and some have less. I actually come from a family who lived all their lives in Government housing. So what really is your point? Thankfully those worshipping and following Christ is made up of the rich, the poor and everyone in between.

Country Gal estimates on pre Eurasian invasion for this continents indigenous are based on 19th Century European life expectancies. Life in the industrial revolution was very short compared to the ancients because of low nutrition and pollution. Fresh meat and vegetables were often beyond the finance of workers. Pollution was another factor. The point is not that numbers can be fiddled to make it look as though the lives of Indigenous Australians have improved, the point is why are they as a whole dying so young and what have the rest of us done wrong that this should happen. Yes the indigenous community should take action to help themselves , here and there it has been the case since the 1700's. This argument does not let the rest of Australia off the hook.

Australia is an extremely racist society.Indigenous Australians have no hope and no future, Australian society will keep them down although it breaks my heart to admit it. The Christian community view the indigenous as domesticated savages, the good ones find jesus the bad ones are because they are heathens. The political sector views the indigenous as thorns in their side, somehow threatening Australias sovereignty and also blighted by the Christian view that 'they should be one of us'. These problems the rest of us have created should be addressed as until we can change our views we are just going to continue making a disgusting situation worst.

Hunting and gathering on agricultural land?
Keeping in mind the carrying capacity of this continent has diminished and landrights only occur when stock farming has degraded the land even for beef, there may be scope for dual use of land for hunting and gathering and this has been going on here and there.

The greatest barrier to indigenous wellbeing is the Christian attitude that because we may help the indigenous we then own them. Indigenous Australians belong to themselves and the rest of the nation must help them and it must be so a pluralistic society is developed with all its complexities.The word 'Australia' must become synonymous with both.