Aqvarivs,
Bugsy is correct- it has been argued by anti-choicers throughout this debate that human life starts at fertilisation and blastocysts are fertilised ova in which differentiation has occurred without any blood supply.

That’s why the Catholic Church is opposed to embryonic stem cell research; it destroys human life, which is an evil thing to do- and even if it’s done for a good purpose, evil should not be used to create good. (Church's logic, not mine).

Although the Church is supportive of stem-cell research, this only is the case when stem cells are derived from umbilical cords, placentas, adult tissues and organs etc. It all depends on the source.
If the source is blastocysts (or embryos), the Church opposes research because it destroys lives of embryos.
That’s why major religions reject the usage of abortificants such as the morning after pill and IUD’s: these are able to destroy life.

Danielle,
Yes, Pennyroyal is a strong abortificant, but the most toxic as well.
Even if you look at some aromatherapy books, there are warnings on some of the oils to avoid them during pregnancy.
Unfortunately, women who attempted to abort by using herbs, sometimes suffered extremely painful abortions and even death, but I think this happened in cases where pregnancies were 6 weeks and over. I believe the herbs were quite save when used as soon as menstruation was delayed, or after a wild night :)

It was important that after the usage of abortificant herbs, women followed up with some strengthening herbs and rest to restore the body.

I wonder how many women pregnant women don’t know that herbs and fruits like parsley and pineapple can act as abortificants as well. I assume high dosages are needed to cause an abortion, but hey, what if you’re happily pregnant and have pineapple cravings?

Yes- long hot baths could be effective: there are warnings on spa’s at swimming pools for pregnant women not to enter!

I think acupuncture also is successfully used to induce abortions.

I hope anti-choicers will keep all this in mind on their crusade against abortion.

Celicia,

Thank you for the additional info. I wonder how many women in the past thought concretely that they were committing an abortion, or regulating a menstrual cycle. I
think that the latter was more likely.

I noticed that someone mentioned that abortion destroyed a human soul. However, this
leads onto the ontological dilemma as to whether it is possible to destroy a human soul.
I would have thought that by definition, once a soul was created, it could not be destroyed.

First off I would like it noted that bugsy is. And her last post proves it. I love emotional diatribes heavily laced with ridicule as substitute for reasoned dialogue.

Secondly, I'm not approaching the subject from an anti-choice position so I feel no necessity in maintaining their view nor someones interpretation of the Churches.

What I was trying to do was offer an exception to the "lump of cells" crowd. That I would meet them half way. You can call them "lump of cells" but, once that lump of cells has a blood supply and is taking in nutrients and expelling operational waste, it's alive as it is ever going to be, and no longer "just a lump of cells". Stop it's flow of blood and you terminate it's life. It can be a human embryo or a mosquito.

I realise that is naught to the pro-abortionist and no matter of dialogue will deter them from their championed practice, and for avid pro-lifers, for some of them masturbation is murder. I'm not trying to argue the extremes.

I want to thank Danielle for offering the perfect excuse to do murder. Since the soul is eternal and can not die, ending a life is a trivial thing. I wonder how that will hold up under civil law.

I would also like to say that I think down the ages there have always been women (and men) who have found their empowerment through taking life, rather than being empowered by giving life. I think it's appropriate to observe whom champions which and for which reason.

Brian's article was thought provoking and it was devoid of much of the hyper-rhetoric of some camps.

I played a minor PR role in conjunction with all other parties to turn public opinion around to the Pro RU 486 case. Most of the credit for this can go to Senator Lyn Allison and a group of cross-party women who 'took on' the pro-lifers. I was reminded daily by telephone calls and letters that I was in league with Satan.

I said I barracked for Port Adelaide so they were probably half right.

This RU-486 issue was the only time in my career that I can remember foreign (American evangelists) forces aiding and abetting hostile and divisive pro-life campaigns on Australian soil.

I used to think that Australia was essentially a secular society but abortion (as opposed from RU 486) is an electoral 'hot button'.

The fact that Brian's article has generated so much debate, and with the Government lagging in the polls, don't be surprised if there's not a new 'values' campaign launched soon, meaning Tony Abbott's values.

Brian's article was thought provoking and it was devoid of much of the hyper-rhetoric of some camps.

I played a minor PR role in conjunction with all other parties to turn public opinion around to the Pro RU 486 case. Most of the credit for this can go to Senator Lyn Allison and a group of cross-party women who 'took on' the pro-lifers. I was reminded daily by telephone calls and letters that I was in league with Satan.

I said I barracked for Port Adelaide so they were probably half right.

This RU-486 issue was the only time in my career that I can remember foreign (American evangelists) forces aiding and abetting hostile and divisive pro-life campaigns on Australian soil.

I used to think that Australia was essentially a secular society but abortion (as opposed from RU 486) is an electoral 'hot button'.

The fact that Brian's article has generated so much debate, and with the Government lagging in the polls, don't be surprised if there's not a new 'values' campaign launched soon, meaning Tony Abbott's values.

Cheryl aka Malcolm King

Ensoulment is a red herring. If you leave an embryo alone in the ordinary course of events it will turn into a bouncing baby. To say that a clump of skin cells has the full compliment of chromosomes just like a zygote or embryo misses the moral significance of the embryo. It is a human being.

Those prejudiced against persons with religious commitment don’t seem to want to engage the content of the claim for the sanctity of life at all stages. Its easier to talk about conspiracies or theocratic agendas. Alarm bells should go off when you hear this, the truth is the new religion of secularism wants to shout down opposing views.

Christians believe life is sacred and at no stage should innocent life be taken.

Those who want carte blanche to kill forget that they will be old soon enough and for younger Australians perhaps pulling the plug literally or figuratively (in terms of taxes for health insurance and nursing homes) might be deemed a convenience the way abortion is to young women and men.

Look we all know what this is about. People want to have sex without consequences, without having to commit in marriage. This impulse seems to be even stronger than the maternal instinct - for mothers are willing to kill their own offspring in its pursuit.

Have no illusions this generation perpetrates mass child sacrifice, and we'll be held to account. Don't underestimate the will to ignorance.

Most abortions are had by young women during their first non-casual sexual relationship in their early twenties. This playing house is bad for everyone (no Western country has a replacement fertility rate)

Anyway – those that worship the life force do little about passing it on. The meek will again inherit the earth it seems.

'Faith:Fertility and American Dominance (atheist Phillip Longman)
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FI08Aa01.html