Aqvarivs and Logic, I really do appreciate your apprehensiveness about oppression and intolerance. On the one hand, I believe Jesus really is the Son of God, regardless of what dissenting views exist, and regardless of how reasonable or virtuous or pleasant the dissenters are. I see it as a fact that I can do nothing about. However, I am not permitted to be intolerant or to force-feed or oppress. On the contrary, I am under instructions (and also pretty inclined) to love every human being without exception, including of course those who hold a dissenting view. They are safe from me.

This is why I agree with the separation of Church and State – so that well-meaning Jesus enthusiasts like me are not tempted to abuse power. I prefer not to have power. I prefer the Christians (and the other religions) to lobby, not to govern.

It is possible to be dogmatic and well-mannered. Relativism is not the only way to be tolerant. I believe non-Christians are seriously mistaken, but I will not be interfering with them.

TR: Thanks for clearing that up. I was surprised by what I thought you were saying. While you regard the soul, absent evidence, as silly, I regard empiricism as small and overly constrained. I’m pretty sure I understand the caution, and even the anger, in the face of religious aggression and strife, but I think it’s sad that so many people have reacted by receding into the empiricist box, as it’s so small. A voluntary limitation on thought seems tragic to me. (I loved Wafa Sultan, thank you!)

Yvonne: Yes, Jesus questioned and challenged power. I think he was at pains to remind his listeners that they had strayed from the heart of their own scriptures – had replaced mercy with ritual, for example.

Pax,

aqvarivs,

We would appreciate an answer to our post. It would appear you have ignored the question. That would not seem a good way to display an example of any faith. None of us walk on a higher moral ground here. Its just a forum wherepeople exchange thoughts and ideas Aqvarivs.
So if you do not mind please answer our question.
Do you beleive Aqvarivs that you have a right to slaughter in Australia using methods that dont comply with Australian vetinary standards. If so could you please understand why so we can understand your reasons a little better please? It was a simply question. To leave this unanwered would not only be rather rude but some readers may a different impreshion than the one you meant.
Whatever that is.

George, thank you for such a compliment. That was the nicest acknowledgment I think I have every received.

goodthief, now if everyone could approach their religious thinking from your stated outlook, life even among Christians, would be more in the vein of Jesus's teachings rather than by those who feel the need to use church dogma to dominate and dictate how to believe.

People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, who exactly are "we", and where ever in my post did I mention anything about butchering animals for consumption? You are apparently pushing a barrow unrelated to this thread. Are you lost? I did not reply immediately to you for the very simple fact that I had used up my 2 post in 24hrs. I don't know anything about meat processing. I like to fish and eat what I catch and from that I know there is probably umpteen dozen ways to process fish. I choose to skin them and fillet them. Does this make me amoral? Why don't you come back and participate in this thread as yourself instead of as "People against...". I don't normally answer to post directed by those of organizations or people selling cds or books.
It smacks of telemarketing and I feel it takes advantage of this forum to highjack a thread to gain attention for your pet cause.

TR,

My comments on the wafaa Sultan interview on Al Jazeerah:
- She is preaching to the converted on the first part (ie Militant groups, actions etc..)
- Using the actions by the likes of Taliban (ie destruction of temples, Bhudda statues) to blanket all muslim is self-refutable simply look at modern history. If her claim had any truth, there would be no trace of pharaonic, nubian , Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Ptolemaic civilisations or monuments. On the contrary, early M civilisation preserved all other cultures and its statues, temples and monuments.
I am actually surprised you couldn’t see through that. Your earlier comments sounded like those of an analytical mind.

Boaz,

I just ignored the question as I have answered you before. You also never answered any of mine including the one above. Muslims believe in Jesus (pbuh) and his teachings. Its just what you made of him 4 centuries later that makes you unique.
There is little difference between us anyway. Looks like you are still searching,

Aqvaries Said a few posts up>

Why? Because eventually it will be argued by the religious "Christian" powerful that only they know what is best and must dictate to all. Pale requested you please explain what is meant by the above you wrote.
Are you suggesting that Halal Slaughter should be carried out In Australia without Australian guidelines? It was a simply question Aqvaries. There is no need to become angry.
I found the comment of particular interest especially as I thought I recalled you posting some place else you Dad had a farm.

Regarless of if that was yourself or another poster this question has been raised several times and we are interested on your thoughts on the matter.
The question is - Do you beleive Religious requirents of ANY slaughter process involving food should take priority over Australian Law?

goodthief wrote "What do you say about MaNik’s post? Are Buddhists flawed humans after all?"

on the face of it yes...those whom rejected children with aids as sinful souls would be a flaw...but whats not mentioned is what do the majority of buddhists think/do...if its that we all have sin and so all of us are no different to these children and no reason to reject them on sin-with the writer writing whole relevant facts helps to allow us to assess effectively

...and its same in all religions...those who fail/intentionaly to grasp the basic premise and act to use it for self-benefit, to other range of those whom do use the religion to move higher in their chosen path towards spiritual development...

Another problem is when a 'belief' is held as a 'truth'...eg you were told and so believe that the sun was actually reflected light,like the moon, so everything your eyes see of the sun fits with this belief...but the 'truth' is sun has light of its own...

Point is that all 'belief' must be held as support in the search for the truth...for if the belief is taken as the truth then the mind is closed...even when the truth stands there...and one stops spiritually developing...and anyone acting to close a souls mind is doing a terrible thing to that person...

and the above is the basic premise of 'science'...ie to ascertain a 'fact' one first puts a 'hypothesis' and studies with experiments to refute/confirm with an open mind to result, or more usual, that the 'expected' doesnt/does happen in carefully structured experiments in a repeatable way...before its declared not/is a 'fact' or at religion 'truth'...

As to the soul...seek it as its within you...so you can answer if there is a soul...and if its linked to the greatest among us...god...for that is what a reasonable person with an openmind and any beliefs would do...and its ok to feel fear but not let fear stop you doing what you need to, just take more due care(...I walk through the valley of death but I fear no evil...lords prayer)

Sam