Dear goodthief, I am as to my own thinking and personal philosophy of self "the dawning of the age of Aquarius". Or the human being of the next 2000 years.:-) However much I like to consider myself as thinking beyond the elemental past and wanting to approach life issued with a more inclusive social view, I do not reject the lessons hard learned yesterday. So I stylize Aquarius with the old stonemasons V. Giving us aqvarivs. Past, present and forward to the future. Not forgetting that it is a "handle" that I devised for myself more than 25 years ago when I first started on the internet. Back then it was du jour and everyone had a nom de plume. I'm not sure why but, I think it may have been a holdover from the American CB(citizen band radio)craze of the late '70s.
Anyhow, I still appreciate the concept 25 years on and feel no need to change it.

If you will allow me to surgically isolate the following,"no mere personal thing, but something true that everyone needs." I would just like to say I agree whole heartedly that all people need a personal philosophy to be successful. I did not place the value "mere" on religion but, meant to say that it was a personal path and not a choice best dictated by an assumed authority over all belief. I myself was born and raised Roman Catholic but, long ago strayed into Old Testament, Islam, Zoroastrian and the Book of Arda Viraf, The Bhagavata, and now I am deep into Daoism. I haven't converted to any. It is just part of my appetite to know as best I can variations on the same theme. So I will end with this prayer for you.
"Whatever you seek,
may you find it.
Whatever trail you take,
may it lead you to peace with yourself."

Cheers

The link that Philip Tang gave us is to an official German website (quantara.de), and not everything there offers such a pessimistic picture as this particular story. I never lived in Indonesia or any other islamic country, but as for Europe - in particular Germany where I have been living now for seven years (and I think also for Australia) - the Muslim presence is a fact, that cannot be ignored, but can and must be put to useful purpose.

In Germany Christians are still the larger minority compared to Muslims, the majority being, of course, secular humanists, baptised or not. I think Christians have more in common with Muslims than with secular humanists in what they believe in, whereas they have more in common with the latter than with the former as to how they wear their beliefs. A Christian living his/her faith peacefully in a secular humanist society without losing it could - and perhaps should - serve as an example, hopefully an encouragement, to Muslims how to live their faith in a society with secular humanist majority.

Of course, there are problems with what the Germans call "parallel society", kind of social and cultural ghettos inhabited mostly by poor Muslims, where I would not like to go at night. But there are also much encouraging signs: I am often amazed how proudly, and in, what we westerner would call civilised, way educated young Muslims - mostly Turks, and as a matter of fact, mostly women, with or without the headscarf - defend their faith in TV talks while at the same time being critical about the "medieval" practices of their older and less educated coreligionists.

Once we succeed in showing them how to do it here, comes the harder part of setting things straight globally, where Christians and secular humanists have much less influence. Namely, to export this experience of peaceful cohabitation with other religions (and non-religions) into a society with an islamic, rather than secular humanist, majority. I believe it can be done, but it will take more generations than in Europe or Australia.

Aqvar.. nice post. Thanx for outlining a good response to FH. saves me some effort there.

GoodThief, I know what ur saying. Here in a debate forum it is about exploring "issues" and in a robust manner:) In saying that, I don't wish to alienate souls, and try as much as possible to focus on issues rather than people. Remember Pauls words about 'a different gospel' in Galatians 1? He didn't mince words.

LOGIC I refer mostly to early Islamic times, the time when "Islam" was shaped. Have you heard this phrase "Such and such a surah was 'sent down' during....." In other words, what you are yet to grapple with, is the 'eternal nature' of the Quran in the eyes of Muslims. It was not simply for the first few decades of Islam that Jews and Christians should be destroyed according to Surah 9:30, it is for all time, and based on their 'insulting belief' that Uzair is the son of Allah (a factually wrong understanding of Judaism anyway) and that Christ is the Son of God. These things are not connected with specific history, but with belief.

If you doubt that my understanding of radical/Quranic Islam is 'out of date' then I suggest (seriously) you have a little read of this:
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2006/02/british_muslim.php
(Have you totally ignored the theology behind the Hamas Charter?)

The major problem for those suggesting an 'Islamic Renaissance' is possible, is that there is one brewing..but its the REAL Islam, and it seeks to overthrow all the governments listed in that link.
If you insulted Mohammed, it will KILL YOU. -a sobering thought I hope.

Medieval times are irrelevant to me in a discussion about Islam.
Medeival Mawdudi was expounding the Quran, Hamas 2007 is based on the Quran, Al Ghurabaa in London 2007 is based on the Quran.

The 11 men in Sydney and 13 in Melbourne on trial ... are based on the Quran.

FH intellectual honesty test time.
Ok.. 9:30 does it, or does it not declare destruction for Christians and Jews based on their beliefs? Yes...or No.

Yes...we all should fear religious zealots of any religion with followers whom want to war against evil...that command no man can give, but by god to each soul...

...and pax (you too boaz and curious others)...and all those whom want to explore their spiritual side...and those whom oppressed by the 'teachers' of their religion, in reality not teaching but whom actually acting as an obstructive wall for their own benefit between souls and god, preventing soul-god relationship, and healthy growth of said...

A good curiosity and contemplation causing book...for anyone with western life background...using buddhism as the background...but could be any religion...and anyone whom wants gods awareness and connection...while struggling with the material reality of day to day lives we find ourselves in....searcher of his own soul...

hermann hesse (1977-1962) siddhartha (not about buddha but a person named same)
http://www.online-literature.com/hesse/siddhartha/
[by the names hermann used it seems he knew mahabharata and bhagvad gita(hindu philosophy) well]

little help though,
-'the third eye'(the spiritual eye-open you eyes and you will see...christ), this is the eye of energies...god is energy(without physical form)...so to explore god you need to open this eye(we all have)...energies have colour(just like our two eyes see colour of objects reflected by light)...then evil souls have a colour that differs from good souls etc...and

-one way to explore your spiritual side is act to remove all desire then the material world effect diminishes...in reality its difficult until you also suppress all your senses as it always distracts...meditation is good for this part...when at point when desire is controlled, then all you should be aware of is your spiritual side...then you should become aware of god-if he exists...I think all open minded athesist should do this first before concluding god does not exist...a logical approach...

Sam
Ps~as long as each soul knows that they are getting closer to the absolute truth, soul keeps growing...

'as long as each soul knows that they are getting closer to the absolute truth, soul keeps growing...'

Sam, this is the scientific creed to a T. That is, science aims to slowly uncover knowledge and therefore increment toward ultimate truths.

Just to back track a bunch of posts...

I'm a bit moved by the amount of muddy (unchristian) history that has been slung in this thread.

Even though Buddhism is romanticized so much by us 'westerners', is it really an 'ideal'? Go to Cambodia today and watch AIDS infected kids being beaten and persecuted by faithful Buddhists. And why? They believe these children were so wicked in a previous life as to deserve such treatment.

I don't think many of the latte-sipping, Aussie 'Buddhists' realize the true implications of its hyper-fatalism.