'If we all dig each other scriptures out that’s a definite scenario for wars to come.'

No it isn't a scenario for wars to come Fellow_Human. We are engaging in a truth finding exercise. There is no need for any conflict if the dialogue is conducted in a rational way.

Ms Sultan presented her arguments in a clear and consise way that was rational and polite. Yes, she was polite. It was the Sheik who got his knickers in a knot and called her a "heretic" which is a pathetic thing to do.

Time and time again all the violent and bigoted behaviour lies at the feet of monotheists who are brainwashed with their own dogma. Freethinkers, rationalists and scientists are merely presenting a worldview with the facts as they see them. If the monotheists have a problem with the bluntness of the presentation then too bad. They really need to grow up.

What is becoming increasingly clear is that the "history" portrayed in the Torah, Bible, and Koran/hadith is not real history. The revealed texts of monotheism are man made fabrications that ooze illogical contradictions, nonsensical myths, violent tribalism, sexism, and homophobia.

God as an intellectual and philosophical pursuit is still open to human investigation. However, the 'Holy' texts of monotheism is an open and shut case. They are not true. Only the brainwashed believe that they are - this is the truth of the matter.

Thanks, aqvarivs, Philip Tang, goodthief, Fellow Human for showing us in your recent postings how to conduct a debate about religions and world views. Thank you TR for showing us in your last posting how not to do it. Writing about what one believes in without belittling other people's beliefs and preferences is not only more polite and "civilised" but also more informative, than simply attacking views and positions that one does not share, or cannot understand.

Hi TR,

"If the monotheists have a problem with the bluntness of the presentation then too bad"
Actually it wasn't a debate: it was a blanket attack without really structuring her argument and an old man who kep repeating the heresy word. I wouldn't call anything more than a funny puppet show.

You are enttitled to your opinions but to discredit the contribution of 3 great religions reflects arrogance and ignorance. In addition to family, social and human values, many of the scientific innovation(s) was initiated and pursued by followers of these religions.

A lot of the richness and diversity that enriched today's freethinking is because of the variety of theologies existing in the world. Are you saying that if the world evolved without monethism (ie beginning with the Byzantine, Mongols and ending with the soviet union) the world would be better today?

I don't believe one need to dismiss or discard human history to prove his/her religious convictions. One of the things I learned is that religion is a very 'personal truth and no-one have monopoly on the absolute truth. I have seen people bounce each direction between religion and non-religion everyday.

These last few posts were wonderful posts.
It is with articulate debate like this I can explore what I belief to be the truth.

As to an 'open mind' that can be overemphasized. Surely if you come to a belief which is true to you it should take a very persuasive argument for you to change that. It's good to bend in the wind, but not like grass surely. Like bamboo is preferable!

FH. I've never suggested I don't accept 'you' have I ?

goodthief makes an outstanding point, (which is relevant to my 'anti islamic tirades') and that is the 'connection to power'.

This is the fundamental problem. Islam represents earthly power, a State, and that is where I have my concerns. It can call me every name under the sun, and I won't worry, like I get from CJ, Bugsy, Alanpoi and many others.. remember the vitriol of 'Alchemist' ?

Its only when that dissapproval is connected to the concept of a 'State' and state power, aaah... now that must be fought tooth and nail, on every hill and valley, whereever it rears it's ugly head.

I will accept a moderate like yourself, and we can agree to disagree.
But a malicious person who is close to the Wahabist view of things, is my absolute enemy and the enemy of the state. In such a case I will use every lawful means of removing such vermin from this country.

peace :)

‘Writing about what one believes in without belittling other people's beliefs and preferences is not only more polite and "civilised" but also more informative, than simply attacking views and positions that one does not share, or cannot understand.’

Hi George, I don’t understand why we must pussy foot around religious beliefs. What is it about religions that we have to treat them with more reverence than any other subject? Who says? This is just an unnecessary lot of nonsense from clerics and sympathisers who can’t conduct a rational argument and therefore have to resort to emotional blackmail and coercion. You may think that Abraham, Jesus and Mohammad are figures of absolute grandeur. I don’t. Indeed, they deserve no more respect than the likes of Aristotle, Darwin or Gandhi.

Incidently, here is one of my favourite quotes from Gore Vidal (1998). Apparently I am not alone in my bellicosity;

‘The great unmentionable evil at the center of our culture is monotheism. From a barbaric Bronze Age text known as the Old Testament, three anti-human religions have evolved - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. These are sky-god religions. They are literally patriarchal - God is the Omnipotent Father - hence the loathing of women for 2000 years in those countries afflicted by the sky-god and his earthly delegates. The sky-god is a jealous God, of course. He requires total obedience from everyone on earth, as he is not just in place for one tribe, but for all creation. Those who reject him must be converted or killed for their own good.’

(Cited in ‘A Devil’s Chaplain’ by R. Dawkins - incidently the Prof. is on Compass this coming Sunday with his documentary, ‘The Root of all Evil?’)