What a thought provoking article and what a great thread!

And why is it that the world's population needs to keep on growing? Let's reward those who have no children, or 2 or less for starters. Let's aim for a zero population growth.

Missed an important factor in applying probability to extract future predictions ted...human intelligence...the very factor that brought us to this point is what will save our future, but I agree we have to act now...

Dont think it will be 'simple-life style' rather high tech, small ecofootprint life is what our intelligent pursuit will drive towards...and one big difference...current mentality of consumerism for getting and holding material possessions would be replaced by drive to maintain human-earth equilibrium, this need arises now thanks to our communal act to push us to outer limits of survivable environment.

yeah, money will become a tool for trading as it always should have been than the current higher-than-god need with our daily striving for more of it...and the whole current industry that exists around it to remove money from us thats making our current world go around...

I think the aboriginals had this down pat when their mentality they only borrow the land and with it the obligation to care for same...we are getting there too...after all what do we take when we die?hmmm an inevitable question we should all ask at the early part of our life than near the end...might lead to a life acts driven by our intelligence applied to seeing and caring for all the important factors that affect our lives and us as a society ie less focus on preserving our own possessions and more acting to prevent damage and destruction to the balance of things of what is common in society and nature while improving all our quality of lives, particularly well being of children everywhere...definitely more sustainable

ie mentality of seeing all of us living in a self sustaining unreplenishable fish tank ecosystem where each living affects all of us in small to big ways and so identifying an unbalanced selfserving element and addressing it quickly becomes more important for ssurvival than acting to improving the fish tank...

Sam

Odd how the establishment of a new utopia invariably requires "legal imperatives".
Stalin's forced collectivization in the 20's required "legal imperatives".
Pol pot's agrarian reform required "legal imperatives"; the same in North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba etc.
Eclipse Now's "New Urbanism" sounds unsettlingly similar to Nicolae Ceausescu's Systematization.

Nice.

Why don't you come up with a plan for a world with drastic liquid fuel shortages. This is not tinfoil hat territory — the data speaks for itself. Watch tomorrow night's SBS at 8:30 and then get back to me with your techno-fantasy suggestions.

There ARE amazing new renewable energy technologies, but the last I checked most of them produce ELECTRICITY not liquid fuels. This is a cheap oil crisis, not an electricity crisis (yet). Even Dr Karl can see that we are at peak oil.

So go ahead, call me names, attack my motives, whatever you want. The laws of physics will win in the end.

Reply to horus.
<duncan mills
I would like hear your argument/case in greater detail.
It would be interesting perhaps enlightening.
Posted by Horus, Saturday, 21 April 2007 5:43:02 PM>

Horus; To argue would be to sustain the faulty paradigm, surely?

My case however:
History shows us that at the level of social change , reason has rarely in the broad sweep worked for a human persistence of quality. Maybe the self aggrandisement of clubs of nations, but is that enough for a just perpetuity?

I would suggest that only reason in the service of faith will open the window open for a dignified future.

That I believe, is a personal journey, guided by continuous personal critical inquiry.

What are the golden questions that may serve each of on such a journey That is a collaborative project worth working on!!

With no claims to exclusivity or adequacy, a few that I think help are
-In my existence do I wish to do the world harm or good?
-Which makes me feel good about my existence?
-What are the values that make my existence enjoyable?
-What are the consequences to the planet of these values of mine?
-Is it enough that I change myself?
-With respect to these questions, how well have I done to day?

This reiterative process is dialectical rather than rational and discovers deeper motives than those elucidated by reason alone, and I suggest generative of a faith that is far more powerful than force of reason alone

Tapping away earnestly at your computers here will get absolutely nowhere.

Get up off your big, fat bums and get out there actually doing something about all this!

Chatter is cheap. Actually doing something about this issue will stretch you out and give you a nice little personal challenge.

Stop talking and DO!